99 from BB vs shortie

[DandyJam]

Full Tilt 6-max. Blinds $0.5/1.

Button is shortstacked with $30. No real good read on him but he seems like a decent, somewhat loose player. I haven't seen him go out of line yet. My table image is probably slightly LAG, but I haven't been very aggressive although I've played quite a lot of hands.

All fold to button who limps. SB calls. I raise to $4 from BB with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Pot: ~$9)

I check. Button bets $6. He has $20 left after his bet. I check-raise all-in.

Good or bad? Should I just have bet the flop instead, in which case I would probably be committed to call a push from the button. I figured my best way to get some more money from him would be to let him take a stab at the pot if checked to.

Edit: The flop did not contain a flush draw

[TheProbst]

make a standard cont bet and fold to a push. there is no such thing as committed.

[DandyJam]

So you say if I bet like $9 and he pushes for $26 I should always fold when I only have to put $17 more into a pot of $44? That can't be good if he's able to push with for example 55-88, A4, 56 or maybe even missed overcards if he thinks the flop didn't hit me.

[toybux]

He can also push with diamonds here. I think that leading at the flop is the better line. If he's pretty straightforward, you don't have to double him up if he has a queen. Just bet your standard cont. bet size or just pot it. If he pushes, evaluate how likely you are to be good. If he doesn't push with draws, you can fold and save yourself the money. If he pushes with 56, the FD, or a made hand (55-88, A4), you can probably call getting the odds you have. If you make check raise all in, he'll probably fold A4, 55-88 which are the hands you want to be all in against. He'll probably correctly call with a FD (which probably has at least one live over, so you're pretty much flipping here) and maybe a straight draw, and probably never folding a queen. Thus, you let him pick if he wants to put $6 in and be done, or if he wants to put the rest in. This is bad. If you lead, he'll push with a much wider range than he'll call this check-raise because he think he might have FE.

Edit: Just saw the edit of the OP. Without the flush draw, calling and folding are closer and probably read-dependent. If you think he'll bluff push here, you can still call. But remember, a lot of the hands you are ahead of have more equity against you than you have against the hands you are behind. Two overs you're about 75%, straightdraw 64%, A4 80%. Any hand that has you beat will leave you with only 10% equity.

[Evil_Andy]

Raise to $5 PF and bet 2.3 pot on flop.

[DandyJam]

Sorry for tricking you with the flush draw in the original post... the flop was actually rainbow.

However, I see you reasoning for betting which seems totally logical. My own reasoning went something like this:

* If I bet and he raises we'll probably play for the size of his stack. He might raise with any Q, any PP, A4, a straight draw, or a set. I will have a very difficult decision and would most likely call based on the favorable odds.

* If I bet and he just calls I will have no idea where I'm at and will either have to push or check/call the turn which might also be a scare card for my 99.

* If i check to him he will probably bet his missed hands. And looking at the flop, it should be likely he missed. I still don't want to put myself in a difficult turn decision so i c/r all-in. Besides the fact that I might get called by a weaker pair I think there is also a decent chance he can lay down a weak Q. AQ/KQ/QJ unlikely because he didn't raise preflop.

My conclusion was that if he has some kind of hand we'll probably end up all-in anyway, but if i check I will win an extra bet the times when he didn't hit the flop when he would have folded had I bet into him.

[kongo_totte]

Bet $6-7 flop. Your hand is likely good, and you have no guarantee he'll bet an inferior hand. If he raises, I prolly fold. And I would not consider you committed if you bet this flop.

[Evil_Andy]

[ QUOTE ]
So you say if I bet like $9 and he pushes for $26 I should always fold when I only have to put $17 more into a pot of $44? That can't be good if he's able to push with for example 55-88, A4, 56 or maybe even missed overcards if he thinks the flop didn't hit me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is he really pushing those hands?

[toybux]

[ QUOTE ]

* If i check to him he will probably bet his missed hands. And looking at the flop, it should be likely he missed. I still don't want to put myself in a difficult turn decision so i c/r all-in. Besides the fact that I might get called by a weaker pair I think there is also a decent chance he can lay down a weak Q. AQ/KQ/QJ unlikely because he didn't raise preflop.

My conclusion was that if he has some kind of hand we'll probably end up all-in anyway, but if i check I will win an extra bet the times when he didn't hit the flop when he would have folded had I bet into him.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with the check-raise all in is that HE gets to decide if it is worth calling off most his chips, which he most likely won't do without a hand that beats you or at least has a ton of outs against you. If you bet, he can push thinking he has fold equity against your c-bet range, which I assume is normally pretty wide.

It does suck if he just calls here, but given stack sizes I think he'll fold or push more often than he call.

[DandyJam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you say if I bet like $9 and he pushes for $26 I should always fold when I only have to put $17 more into a pot of $44? That can't be good if he's able to push with for example 55-88, A4, 56 or maybe even missed overcards if he thinks the flop didn't hit me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is he really pushing those hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not. Probably more likely that he'll call I guess, but that puts me to the most diffcult turn decision.