Improving one's LAG game.....

[Assani Fisher]

First off, let me make a statement, which I believe to be true, but I want to hear other's opinions on it. The statement is this: In order to become the best possible player, one should work on becoming proficient playing all styles. The reason behind that is simple- at one particular table, the players might be very weak against a TAG player(think Dan Harringon). At another table, the players might not play well against a LAG(think Gus Hansen). Therefore it would be the greatest EV to be able to recognize this and adapt by playing either style at a very high level.

I mention this because I don't think that I have come close to mastering the LAG style. I think that I am definitely a winning player as a TAG and my results will back me up(not necessarily on all levels of play, but I've supported myself full time from poker for a few years so I'm doing something right).

And I feel as if many people are in a similar boat. Most books and common advice preaches TAG techniques. Because of this, its not as widely of a discussed topic.

I've recently started experimenting with LAG techniques against weaker competition. I've played in several $5/10 live games in Vegas this past month and won by entering a ton of pots, firing at every reasonable opportunity. I've been very successful in these games, but to be honest I feel as if I could beat those games just as easily playing my usual tight style. And furthmore, I was only able to win playing that way because of the mistakes my opponents were making- I constantly would limp from EP with speculative hands and not get raised preflop. This allowed me to be one of the first to act postflop and I fired away whenever I sensed that I could take the pot.

But I've been much less successful trying this in tougher games. In one game of $25/50 that I sat in with Gigabet and Layne Flack, I felt as if Gigabet was playing the LAG style that I'm talking about and being very successful with it. He was much more aggressive preflop though. I would say that he raised it to $250 at least 33% of the time preflop.

I've come to think that the great LAG players are very loose with their preflop raises, are extrememly good at reading players postflop, will attack postflop when they sense any weakness, but will not get tied to many hands and can make big laydowns at times.

This style is obviously much more glamorous, which I'll be honest is one reason which I want to learn it.

Anyway, I don't really have a ton to add to the discussion, but I just wanted to get it started....if some of the successful LAGs out there could post some of their strategies, that'd be great. Especially I'm concerned with how you continue to play winning LAG poker once people have pegged you as such a player and start to continuously play back at you preflop.

[Lefort]

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Especially I'm concerned with how you continue to play winning LAG poker once people have pegged you as such a player and start to continuously play back at you preflop.

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I'd love to see some responses with this as I'm running into the problem myself at times (and at the wrong tables). 3bet 87sooooted? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Megenoita]

The reason lags can be lags is because of hand reading. IMO before being a lag, you should be a tag who focuses on reading hands.

As for people playing back at you, you need to be able to sense this, and both play back lighter, and also change gears and try to find a hand.

[El Diablo]

AF,

Drop down 2 or 3 levels from your normal game. Treat the game seriously (ie: try to win all the money). Play completely wide-open. You'll get proficient at the style very fast.

As you've noticed, in many games nowadays, that style is often not the most optimal and definitely not necessary, but I agree that it's a good thing to be comfortable playing many different styles.

[aejones]

I agree with dropping down. I think you can read books about being a LAG, read posts about LAGs, even master the LAG ways in theory, but until you get out there and play 50,000+, 100,000+ hands while raising and reraising relentlessly, you will not truely understand the style because you have not experienced it yourself.

In my experience you will be able to better deal with being played back at once you have seen many different types of players adjust to your play. Once they adjust to your play, you have to adjust to theirs, and it's a never ending cycle.

[Assani Fisher]

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AF,

Drop down 2 or 3 levels from your normal game. Treat the game seriously (ie: try to win all the money). Play completely wide-open. You'll get proficient at the style very fast.

As you've noticed, in many games nowadays, that style is often not the most optimal and definitely not necessary, but I agree that it's a good thing to be comfortable playing many different styles.

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Good advice, and thats what I have tried to do when messing around at lower limits. However the passivity of those games is what makes it possible for me to do that. I havn't been able to successfully play a LAG style(or maybe I'm just scared to try) in a more aggressive game. Moreover I can be completely running over a lower limit NL table and another LAG will sit down, and most of the time he usually ends up taking control of the table and I concede it rather than playing back. But maybe thats the optimal strategy.

[Moonshine]

[ QUOTE ]
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Especially I'm concerned with how you continue to play winning LAG poker once people have pegged you as such a player and start to continuously play back at you preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to see some responses with this as I'm running into the problem myself at times (and at the wrong tables). 3bet 87sooooted? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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you are allowed to change gears and play TAG sometimes you know.

i do love 3 betting 78 sooted though

[stokken]

For what its worth prev. post

Stokken

[El Diablo]

AF,

"Moreover I can be completely running over a lower limit NL table and another LAG will sit down, and most of the time he usually ends up taking control of the table and I concede it rather than playing back. But maybe thats the optimal strategy."

When you're playing for the purpose in this thread, don't let that guy take control. That's what you're actually hoping for, a super LAG'd up low limit table where you can play completely wide open with no real concern of the stakes.

[innerpeace]

interesting thread and discussion. i'm glad that you point to the importance of proficiency at different styles.

although you and others probably know this, it's important to note that very good players - even those whose image has been "pegged" do switch gears. gus hansen often does play tag and dan harrington does switch to lag. in both cases, they rely on their image to create additional +ev situations. for example, i've seen gus fold twenty plus hands in a row pre flop, and dan will pick good spots to bluff.

to truly engage in this style, i would concur with others that you should drop to a level where the money doesn't matter (both from an overall perspective and from a bankroll perspective).

someone pointed out that you should play tag and develop more hand reading skills before employing a lag style. from my experience this won't work in improving your hand reading as a lag player.

when you play especially lag, and are playing against decent opponents, then they will notice and make specific adjustments. you have to fine tune to those specific adjustments and out-think them (like figuring out when your opponents are restealing, which they will do more frequently if they don't respect your bets/raises)

in other words, opponents who will play against you one way when they perceive you as tag will play differently when they perceive you as lag.

good luck with your experiment. i'd be interested to know how it turns out.