Flopping trips during BB defense, and c/r'ing for deception

Chipspin · #1 07-13-2006, 06:24 AM

Villain seems to be a fairly decent, probably slightly losing, LAGgy guy (25/10/2 over ~200). He's certainly smart enough to think about what I'm representing versus what I actually have.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
6 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises

Eh? Standard or FPS or clever?

XmasXmas · #2 07-13-2006, 06:38 AM

if you aren't going to 3-bet pf, i guess the rest of it is pretty standard. i can't think of the last time i had AJo in the BB and didn't three bet a CO open raiser though.

HoneyBadger · #3 07-13-2006, 06:38 AM

I'd bet, representing the ace, he will almost always raise representing it himself. Then call and c/r him on the turn. I like that because frequently you will be just representing something and being forced to just call his raise. Now next time he will know that this is not neccesarily a show of weakness. You can probably try different lines at different times. Are you doing this in the hope that he will think it's a c/r bluff on the ace? If you think he's "clever" enough to realize you are pulling a c/r bluff, it's a nice move as well imo.

Chipspin · #4 07-13-2006, 06:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet, representing the ace, he will almost always raise representing it himself. Then call and c/r him on the turn. I like that because frequently you will be just representing something and being forced to just call his raise. Now next time he will know that this is not neccesarily a show of weakness. You can probably try different lines at different times. Are you doing this in the hope that he will think it's a c/r bluff on the ace? If you think he's "clever" enough to realize you are pulling a c/r bluff, it's a nice move as well imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a line I've used many times: lead the flop, villain raises, hero calls, hero checks turn, villain bets, hero raises, villain folds.

And I think the other "I have the trips!!" line is call the flop, and c/r the turn. Neither of these appealed to me at this moment though. I wanted a shot at his river money.

So, I was thinking about how I'd (I'm a super tight TAG) play a QT there. And the flop c/r would probably be my line. Then, if Villain wants to re-resteal, he needs to raise the turn. So that's what I was hoping for.

HoneyBadger · #5 07-13-2006, 07:05 AM

Sounds fine then. You are right about it being very obvious if you c/r the turn. Though I've also c/r bluffed the flop like this often, and they usually fold as well without the ace. You are right about a c/r showing more of a bluff than a call.

Another line is possibly to c/c the flop, then donk the turn. Especially if a king hits this would be nice. I'm just wondering what he could have to pay you off. If he has a worse ace he'll pay you off regardless. If he's drawing to the flush he will pay off. He'll fold if he has nothing... can't you simply keep betting? Last time I was in this exact same situation he simply showed me AQ in the end... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I hate blind defense...

citizenwind · #6 07-13-2006, 09:14 AM

I like donking the flop and getting raised, because he'd think there's no way you'd bet if you had an ace, or that his ace is better than yours (which it might be anyway).

JJH3984 · #7 07-13-2006, 10:37 AM

I think the checkraise is totally standard. Against this opponent, I call preflop about 70% (threebetting the rest) of the time and checkraise the flop (when I call) about 98% of the time.

Dhani · #8 07-13-2006, 11:23 AM

just call the flop and C/R the turn depending on the card. you'll have a better idea if you are still ahead, as many players lead out with a big flush draw.

Dhani · #9 07-13-2006, 11:32 AM

If villain has anything at all, why not C/R the turn instead. Villain is folding any trash hand or low PP, and calling or C/R with any Ace, Flush draw, or high PP to hit Full house. I think we wait for the turn to decide how we continue.

JJH3984 · #10 07-13-2006, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just call the flop and C/R the turn depending on the card. you'll have a better idea if you are still ahead, as many players lead out with a big flush draw.

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I hate this. You are OOP and if he has a marginal hand (like a ten or a small PP), he will likely check behind on the turn and call a river bet. He also might bet/fold these hands on the turn. He also might check behind on the turn with a draw. If you checkraise the flop you will get a lot of action from a weak ace, you will get maximum from a marginal hand, and you won't risk giving free cards to a draw.