Another edition of "You be the floor"

BriMc · #1 07-10-2006, 04:02 PM

This happened this weekend at The Borgata.

2 players are sitting next to each other and they seem friendly. One is a regular (all the dealers know his name, as do the other regulars), the other is not. They keep showing each other thier cards when one isn't in the hand, many people have asked them to stop.

The hand in question:

The regular makes a huge all in over bet heads up on the river, 2k into a 500 dollar pot. The player facing the bet flips over his cards, showing pocket 8s. And asks his opponent if he should call.

The board is:
5J777, suits not important.

The 2 players go back and forth chating about the hand for a second, then it gets quiet while the player facing the all in contemplates his decision. While he's thinking, the player next to the regular, sits back down and asks to see his cards, the regular shows them to him and he says, "oh man buddy, he only had a pair of fives, you should have called" Everyone at the table is like, stfu, the hand is still live! The guy says, "oh [censored], sorry, and covers his mouth". The player facing the all in calls immediately, and the regular tables Q7.

Floor is called, how do you rule?

TomBrooks · #2 07-10-2006, 04:12 PM

I'm not sure but my guess...

Two players to a hand rule. Regular's hand is ruled dead.

However, the pot is restored to the size it was before the infraction took place and the $500 pot is awarded to the guy with 88. The regular's $2000 raise is given back to him.

sirpupnyc · #3 07-10-2006, 04:18 PM

Floor says: "You people are too stupid to live, but your rake is as good as anybody else's. Carry on."

Mauricio Wilson · #4 07-10-2006, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Two players to a hand rule. Regular's hand is ruled dead.

However, the pot is restored to the size it was before the infraction took place and the $500 pot is awarded to the guy with 88. The regular's $2000 raise is given back to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasnt sure at first, but this makes sense.

deucedeuce00 · #5 07-10-2006, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure but my guess...

Two players to a hand rule. Regular's hand is ruled dead.

However, the pot is restored to the size it was before the infraction took place and the $500 pot is awarded to the guy with 88. The regular's $2000 raise is given back to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

sirpupnyc · #6 07-10-2006, 04:27 PM

Aside from the snarky remark of his/her choosing, the floor rules the bet and call stand, quads take the pot.

Regular is a moron for letting someone sweat his cards while they're in play, bigmouth is a moron for running his mouth about cards in play, pocket-8s is a moron for believing bigmouth and for showing his 88. Being a moron isn't against the rules (thank goodness), though the floor might advise all three against repeating such stupidity in the future.

bav · #7 07-10-2006, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two players to a hand rule. Regular's hand is ruled dead.

However, the pot is restored to the size it was before the infraction took place and the $500 pot is awarded to the guy with 88. The regular's $2000 raise is given back to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasnt sure at first, but this makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying if anybody else ever says anything about my cards, I lose 'em? If I'm doing nothing wrong, but a railbird behind me sees my cards and "helps" me with a comment, they're dead? If it's heads-up between me and a guy at the far end of the table and I've ceased carefully protecting my cards, while still not blatantly sharing them, if a neighboring player sees 'em and says something foolish, my hand is dead?

Gotta be careful about punishing folks who didn't do anything wrong.

On the other hand, these two clowns aren't just strangers passing in the night. It's gotta be dealt with. But I'm still not going to rule quad 7's dead.

Guess I'm gonna give quad 7's the pot as it was before 88 called the all-in. Basically give quads what he woulda gotten if 88 had just folded.

And then separate the two schemers and never let 'em sit together again. Maybe send the bigmouth home immediately and tell him if he tries such a stunt again he'll be banned.

AThermopyle · #8 07-10-2006, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Two players to a hand rule. Regular's hand is ruled dead.

However, the pot is restored to the size it was before the infraction took place and the $500 pot is awarded to the guy with 88. The regular's $2000 raise is given back to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you give him his raise back? The "infraction" took place after his raise.

Quads is the best hand and wins the $500. 88 gets his $2000 call back. Loudmouth moved to another table.

sirpupnyc · #9 07-10-2006, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Two players to a hand rule. Regular's hand is ruled dead.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless the Borg has a rule against letting someone sweat live cards, why would this be the case? He didn't ask for or accept advice on how to play (and had, in fact, made his last play for the hand), so his hand isn't being played by more than one player.

[ QUOTE ]
However, the pot is restored to the size it was before the infraction took place and the $500 pot is awarded to the guy with 88. The regular's $2000 raise is given back to him.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're going to do this (rolling back the action to the dealing of the river and closing it there), fine, but then regular's hand has to be live and take the pot, since your point is to close the action at a point before things went wrong. It's probably a better solution than letting the bet and call stand and giving the regular the pot, but I have a feeling it requires a bit of deus ex machina on the floor's part.

A better way (though unenforceable) might be for the floor to strongly encourage the regular to give 88 the 2k back.

bav · #10 07-10-2006, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Regular is a moron for letting someone sweat his cards while they're in play, bigmouth is a moron for running his mouth about cards in play, pocket-8s is a moron for believing bigmouth and for showing his 88. Being a moron isn't against the rules (thank goodness), though the floor might advise all three against repeating such stupidity in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given your ruling, neither the regular nor the bigmouth are morons. They're brilliant angle shooters who just got away with something. Can't imagine why you're calling 'em morons.

As for 88 calling... yeah, he's just been suckered by a pretty obvious angle shot. The couple times I've seen a similar thing, it's been a "do the opposite" tell. If a player's friend "accidentally" reveals his friends cards, you can be certain it was no accident and whatever he just revealed is completely false.