Please slam me for taking bizarre, weak-tight lines with TPTK

goofyballer · #1 06-11-2006, 06:50 AM

I'm not telling you which of these hands I won or lost, but I think we can all agree I played them (save one) like [censored]. I am convinced the only way to change my ways is through public humiliation. Please point out (and hurt my feelings with) every error you see.

My only excuse is that I was 8-tabling. God damn all of you that have ever said the words "pot control" on this forum.

GET READY FOR MEGAHANDS!

Villain in first two hands is 42/15/2.3. LAGgy, but not insane.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $117.45
Hero: $100
SB: $207.35
BB: $85.8
BB: $327

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $3.5, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($8, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($20, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($20, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, SB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $44

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $187
CO: $38.95
Button: $140.55
Hero: $107
BB: $85.80

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6, 2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($14, 2 players)
Hero bets $7, BB calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($28, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Results:
Final pot: $28

Villain is 30/7/3.0

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $113.90
UTG+1: $131.70
CO: $127.35
Button: $297.50
SB: $98
BB: $20.90

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $3.5, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($12, 3 players)
Hero bets $8, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($28, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($28, 2 players)
Hero bets $12, CO calls.

Results:
Final pot: $52

Villain is 40/9/3.2...which actually surprises me, because I remember him being a total calling station. Occasionally this guy would bust out a min flop c/r on me, but for the most part he would roll over and die when I raised preflop and c-bet.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $121.60
UTG+1: $193.70
CO: $110
Button: $16.95
SB: $127.85
BB: $58.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $3.5, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($8.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $6, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($20.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $6, Hero calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($32.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $12, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: $56.5

Same villain in the next two hands. He is the ultimate calling station. If he has a piece, he's calling me down to showdown.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $111.75
UTG+1: $199.60
CO: $97.80
Button: $105.05
SB: $97.70
BB: $141.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $3.5, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($8.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $6, CO calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($20.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $8, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($36.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $15, CO calls.

Results:
Final pot: $66.5

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $121.50
UTG+1: $101.90
CO: $172.40
Button: $232.20
Hero: $183.70
BB: $129.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero raises to $5, BB folds, UTG calls, Button folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($12, 2 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($28, 2 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($58, 2 players)
Hero bets $20, UTG calls.

Results:
Final pot: $98

Villain is 36/8/1.2. No specific reads.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $97
UTG+1: $39.35
CO: $40.75
Button: $291.35
SB: $87.40
BB: $249.15

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $3.5, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($18, 5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13, 3 folds, BB calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($44, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($44, 2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $64

xwillience · #2 06-11-2006, 06:58 AM

a lot of these arent horrible aside from your retarded river bet sizes.

but yeah... you want to get berated so.....

stop [censored] around.... cockboy!!

TheBeloved · #3 06-11-2006, 07:02 AM

You seem to have taken the old pot control thing to heart. Most lines seem ok especially considering that you're OOP in all but the first and the last. You don't lose too much when you're behind but then you don't win too much too. General impression is that you're running a bit bad and being over cautious. Looking over the hands though I imagine you won most of them so perhaps you need to value bet more on the river 2/3 pot at least.

my 2 cents

ps enjoyed the vid on pokeravi

xwillience · #4 06-11-2006, 07:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ps enjoyed the vid on pokeravi

[/ QUOTE ]

shhhh were supposed to be making fun of him... say things like...

"That video you posted was funny!!! it was meant to be a joke, .....right?"

goofyballer · #5 06-11-2006, 07:21 AM

So far your blows have glanced off my pride without kinking my armor, TRY HARDER!!

Retarded river bet sizes was a start. I guess I was trying to bet small enough to ensure calls from a wide range of hands...do you think that range drops much as I go from a 1/3 pot value bet to 2/3? It's probably bad that I've been playing for awhile and still don't know that. Most of these hands make me barf on the turn, not the river.

[ QUOTE ]
ps enjoyed the vid on pokeravi

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

goofyballer · #6 06-11-2006, 07:30 AM

Here's an example of what I'm talking about: The last hand isn't necessarily a WA/WB situation, and when villain has a WA/WB type hand (a set, two pair, one pair) I'm WA of one pair a lot more than I'm WB something else. I have to protect against QT and get value when I'm ahead. If I get check-raised here, I'm almost never ahead, and I can just let go of my hand having lost the same amount as I would have by checking behind and calling his river bet, but without gaining the value of collecting two bets when I'm ahead. This is why I barf when I look at the turn. It's criminal to check behind there.

btw, I won that hand.

xwillience · #7 06-11-2006, 07:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Retarded river bet sizes was a start. I guess I was trying to bet small enough to ensure calls from a wide range of hands...do you think that range drops much as I go from a 1/3 pot value bet to 2/3? It's probably bad that I've been playing for awhile and still don't know that. Most of these hands make me barf on the turn, not the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, of course the call less onthe river when you bet more. But you still make more money. Refer to Isura's Blog about river bet sizes if you dont have NLH:TAP yet.

About the turn. Im betting a lot of those. I did this phase last week where i was checking for pot control every other hand. But I posted a real hand here that I thought i mis played and several people (including you i think) reassured me that pot control isnt always right. bet for value the whole way down. sometimes stacking a guy bit by bit on each street is okay with TPGK. Its all about the villian.

Slap My Jack · #8 06-11-2006, 10:23 AM

Hand 1: We're in position, We just picked up a club draw to the nuts, I'm betting this turn strongly.

As played, checking behind on this river isn't bad. A flush checkraises here and we fold. But he might be scared of the third heart too, and I put in a stronger bet to represent the flush if I feel beat.

Hand 2: Your betting here seems to allow for loose calls, especially on the turn. (showing the check behind on the river shows us the results of the hand basically---no trips for villain.)

Hand 3: 3-way pot, I don't want any loose calls here. I think I bet more. Board is relatively dry, so I don't mind a larger pot. Bet turn.

Hand 4: Not sure. I tend to pot all flops against total calling stations. Makes the process of THEIR STACK ---> MY STACK go much quicker.

Hand 5: If he's calling this turn everytime, pot it. You have trips top kicker. Pot the flop too.

Hand 6: I get paranoid when the bottom pairs out with a calling station on board as well, but you kept up the aggression, hopefully you won that one. The only hand that beats you that doesn't possibly raise you is AQ.

Hand 7: Bloated pot, I think I unfortunately act the same way. It really depends on the villain. I bet this turn and check behind the river if he seems like a decent player.

Overall, at tables where you're getting 2-3 callers everytime, raise more than 3 or 3.5 and see if that cuts down any.

Might want to decrease your tables by at least two.

And, consider dropping down in the stakes if you're feeling weaktight so you can practice with more aggression with less money at risk.

But, yeah, you [censored] weaktight nit. Do you need [censored] quads before you get it all-in on the turn?

Ratamahatta · #9 06-11-2006, 10:48 AM

I would like to hear what some of the elite on this forum have to say about op's play because I would play most of this hand almost the same way.

goofyballer · #10 06-11-2006, 08:18 PM

Alright, results-oriented results seem like a good reason to bump this back to the top so more people can tell me I suck:

Hand 1: Villain had AT, I left $$ on the table

Hand 2: Villain had J8, and checked behind his trips on the river. I was thoroughly confused.

Hand 3: Villain had KT, I left $$ on the table

Hand 4: Villain had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], not sure if he would have called a 2nd barrel or not

Hand 5: Villain has 86o??

Hand 6: Villain has A8o

Hand 7: Villain has KQo, I left horrid amounts of dominated money on the table