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#71
05-31-2007, 01:30 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
[ QUOTE ]
The bet is FIVE! Not SIX FIVE. Got that FIVE DOLLA!. Two red chip into 6.00 bet is obviously a call, since the minimum to raise is 12.00 not 10.00. [/ QUOTE ] Jeez...maybe you should check your math before you get all worked up. If I raise a $2 blind to $6, the minimum reraise is to $10, not $12. 
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#72
05-31-2007, 01:54 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
I suspect most of the difficulty on this issue stems from players who aren't familiar with the idea of not having the denominations needed to call with the exact amount, as is the case on the internet.
[ QUOTE ] The bet is FIVE! Not SIX FIVE. Got that FIVE DOLLA!. Two red chip into 6.00 bet is obviously a call, since the minimum to raise is 12.00 not 10.00. [/ QUOTE ] That's not relevant, and in the example about the $6 was a raise, not a bet. It was $4 on top of the $2 blind, so the minimum raise would be another $4 for $10 total. Beside the point though - there are cases where you can put out X chips and be short a raise, and be required to put out more to meet the minimum raise amount. See next example. [ QUOTE ] Another case: The game is $4-8, on the turn. Someone bets $8. The next player puts in three $5 chips. Is this a raise? In most cardrooms I play in, this would indeed be a raise, because the player has put in at least half the bet without comment. [/ QUOTE ] This would be a raise, and you tell the player that he needs to put another dollar out. Had he only put out two redbirds it would been a call. [ QUOTE ] Game is still 4-8, on the flop. Someone bets $4. Next player raises to $8. Next player raises to $11 and is all-in. (A full raise because it is more than half a bet.) Next player throws three red chips. Is this a raise or a call? [/ QUOTE ] A call.
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#73
05-31-2007, 01:57 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
So it seems that there are two clear cases in the common rules that a bet released into a pot without an accompanying verbal declaration is a call, even though the amount of the bet would constitute a legal raise.
1. One large denomination chip is released into the pot and even if the amount would consitute a legal raise, it is ruled a call. 2. Two chips are released into the pot such that while the amount does consitute a legal raise, the circumstances appear, and are common, that the intent of the player was to call. In both of the above instances, a player would have to verbally state raise, and then release the chips into the pot. Otherwise, they are both considered calls. Are there any other circumstances like this or are these the only two rules regarding calls and non-verbal actions?
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#74
05-31-2007, 02:03 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
[ QUOTE ]
1. One large denomination chip is released into the pot and even if the amount would consitute a legal raise, it is ruled a call. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. If you're playing 2/5NL and a player raises the BB to $15, and the next player throws in a green, it's still a call even though $25 is just enough to make a legal reraise had it been declared a raise. [ QUOTE ] 2. Two chips are released into the pot such that while the amount does consitute a legal raise, the circumstances appear, and are common, that the intent of the player was to call. [/ QUOTE ] Only if the chips are not in excess quantity than what is required to make the call using that particular denomination. (that sounds pretty good, that should be in the rulebook). IE - two redbirds calling $6 is fine, but putting out 3 reds would be raising to $15.
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#75
05-31-2007, 02:13 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
[ QUOTE ]
1. One large denomination chip is released into the pot and even if the amount would consitute a legal raise, it is ruled a call. 2. Two chips are released into the pot such that while the amount does consitute a legal raise, the circumstances appear, and are common, that the intent of the player was to call. In both of the above instances, a player would have to verbally state raise, and then release the chips into the pot. Otherwise, they are both considered calls. Are there any other circumstances like this or are these the only two rules regarding calls and non-verbal actions? [/ QUOTE ] You made #2 a little too specific. It isn't 2 chips released into the pot which is the trick. Same basic issue would apply if a three chip bet were ambiguous. An example: $1 SB, $3 BB, raise +4 to $7, raise +4 to $11. Next guy silently puts out 3 $5's. Once again, ambiguous...he could be intending to raise to $15, or he could be intending to call. If the chips you put into the pot in one motion are of such a mix that you cannot remove a single one and have enough left to cover a call, you called, even if the sum of the chips you put out is also enough to legally raise.
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#76
05-31-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
[ QUOTE ]
$1 SB, $3 BB, raise +4 to $7, raise +4 to $11. Next guy silently puts out 3 $5's. [/ QUOTE ] I can see how confusion might arise from this example, but this is call unless a raise is announced. [ QUOTE ] If the chips you put into the pot in one motion are of such a mix that you cannot remove a single one and have enough left to cover a call, you called, even if the sum of the chips you put out is also enough to legally raise. [/ QUOTE ] That's another good way to say it.
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#77
05-31-2007, 02:28 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
[ QUOTE ]
If the chips you put into the pot in one motion are of such a mix that you cannot remove a single one and have enough left to cover a call, you called, even if the sum of the chips you put out is also enough to legally raise. [/ QUOTE ] This is excellent, bav. Just add the part about a non-verbal action and I think we have a contender for an all-encompassing rule.
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#80
05-31-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: Question on raising/\"one chip rule\"
Them's the rules
You could ask the same in regards to calling - if you threw the chips in and standard practive WAS to consider it a raise, someone else would be asking why he had to announce a call just because he didn't have the exact change needed. Again this is standard everywhere I've dealt or played at, and it's a pretty common occurance. Did we ever identify any houses that are doing something else?
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