The big Fossilman hand of yesterday

[capone0]

Go Read Raymer's Post if you don't believe the call had to be made. Even the loser agrees, the idiot had to call.....

[Shillx]

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Okay if what someone else posted is correct.

PF: Blinds 20/40K Antes 5. 8 People at the Table. Raymer Raises to 150k, Kantor Calls. Theres 400k in the Pot.

Raymer then bets half pot, 200k. Kantor Calls. Now there's 800k in the Pot.

Kantor Leads for 600k. Now there 1.4 Million in the Pot. He has approximately .9 left. Raymer goes allin. If Kantor wins the pot he has 3.8 Million Chips which is 23%. If he folds he has .9 left which is what a little less than half of average. His odds of winning the hand are 18%. Now he's not exactly getting the right odds for a call, but is it that bad, not really. Especially when he doesn't know his overcards aren't good. If he thinks there good he has 14 outs versus a potential AK of a different suit or any non-paired pocket pair. In that case he's getting 3 to 1 on his money. If odds are that Raymer has AK half the time and KK the other half, he is making the right call, sad as it may seem.

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The problem is that he should have just shoved the entire 1.5M into the middle to begin with (instead of betting 600k). If he knew that he couldn't get away from an all-in raise, he should have put it all-in himself for maximum fold equity.

[detroitplayer]

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I think people are forgetting about MURPH DOG re-raising Greg all in last year with like a 5 high flush draw and straight draw on the turn.

IIRC, people seemed to think that was a brilliant play. Greg could have had KK in that hand too.

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but he didnt? you seem really big on making up situations that didnt actually happen to make your point. as ive said like 15 times. johns play was good because his read was correct. kantors play was bad because his read was incorrect. get it now? nothing like being completely results oriented...

rj

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Could you know any less about the game? You are so lost. So now it's just about making the wrong read rather than being a total donk trying to give your money away? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Another one for ignore....

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no, i couldnt possibly know any less about poker, fantastic point. you did a terrific job at convincing me you must be a troll...haha, youre right, john murphy is a total donk trying to "give his money away" by making a well timed bluff at a player he percieved to be weak and winning... point taken. putting me on ignore just means you wont have to make such horrendous generalizations and flat out incorrect statements in response to my posts anymore, what a shame...

rj

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Holy christ. I thought Murph Dog's re-raise all in was [censored] amazing! It was one of the best plays the entire 2004 ME. C'mon, man. Get your head in the game.

[capone0]

As I've said before. The play was poor, the guy got stuck and was forced to make a decision. If you read Raymer's post, the guy basically said "sh!t" I have to call, without even chip counting.

[capone0]

Jon did give all his money away with AK vs JJ way too early. Yes he was a 50/50 tossup. He didn't have to make the play against one of the few guys in the field that were left that probally couldn't fold JJ to a 3rd re-raise allin. I felt bad for Jon, putting all of his chips in the pot with a huge stack compared to the blinds in a race......doh.

[detroitplayer]

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Jon did give all his money away with AK vs JJ way too early. Yes he was a 50/50 tossup. He didn't have to make the play against one of the few guys in the field that were left that probally couldn't fold JJ to a 3rd re-raise allin. I felt bad for Jon, putting all of his chips in the pot with a huge stack compared to the blinds in a race......doh.

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Hey Capone, we're not talking about that hand.

[Cunning Linguist]

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"How bout throwin your hand away when you flop no pair and no draw, ever heard of doin that?"

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Yeah, you tell them Matusow.

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Mike Matusow limps on the button, and Tex Barch follows him in. The flop comes Qh-Jc-2c. Tex checks, and Matusow bets out $36,000 in chips. Tex calls. The turn is the 5h. Tex checks again, and Matusow makes it $100,000 to go. Tex calls again. The river is the Kh. Tex checks again, and Matusow goes into the tank. He comes up firing, making a $250,000 bet. Now it's Tex's turn to go in the tank. Eventually he calls, and Matusow shows 8h-6h for the flush. Tex mucks his hand. Matusow now has $3,130,000. Tex has $1,530,000.



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[capone0]

I know, just saying he made a great play there and then a terrible one later in the tourney. Well not terrible that he got himself into a 50/50 situation, but that he got himself into a race with so many chips.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

Are you really that dense? I said he play was poor the whole way. He was forced to call. Are you that freaking stupid. His piss poor semi-bluff was a mis-read and he had to call. I forgot Felix you know exactly what everyone has at the table. I forgot poker is a game of missing information. I forgot Felix is the 10 time ME champion because he's never made a bad play in his whole poker career. And in the event of a mistake, he sucks out on someone. I forgot Felix has never sucked out on anyone.
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I know about being pot stuck. I truly think you would argue with a brick wall. As I said before you are tiresome. Please find someone else to argue with. You are just not worth anymore words. You communication techniques remind me of the joke:

'Well, Mrs. Lincoln, other than the assassination, did you enjoy the play?'

It takes a lot of effort to find anything right that Kantor did that hand. Congrats, you found the one thing he did right. In another post down the page I explain how I think Kantor should have played the hand. Bye.

[PITTM]

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I think people are forgetting about MURPH DOG re-raising Greg all in last year with like a 5 high flush draw and straight draw on the turn.

IIRC, people seemed to think that was a brilliant play. Greg could have had KK in that hand too.

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but he didnt? you seem really big on making up situations that didnt actually happen to make your point. as ive said like 15 times. johns play was good because his read was correct. kantors play was bad because his read was incorrect. get it now? nothing like being completely results oriented...

rj

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Could you know any less about the game? You are so lost. So now it's just about making the wrong read rather than being a total donk trying to give your money away? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Another one for ignore....

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no, i couldnt possibly know any less about poker, fantastic point. you did a terrific job at convincing me you must be a troll...haha, youre right, john murphy is a total donk trying to "give his money away" by making a well timed bluff at a player he percieved to be weak and winning... point taken. putting me on ignore just means you wont have to make such horrendous generalizations and flat out incorrect statements in response to my posts anymore, what a shame...

rj

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Holy christ. I thought Murph Dog's re-raise all in was [censored] amazing! It was one of the best plays the entire 2004 ME. C'mon, man. Get your head in the game.

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i didnt say it was amazing, you just mocked it and i said it wasnt mockable, because IT WAS A SOLID READ AND HE WAS CORRECT. you really really seem to have a problem understanding that the way these players process the information is the most important thing. simplifying a hand like that to make murphy look stupid makes you look like you have absouletely no idea what youre talking about. murphys read took the way greg had been playing for the last 3 days (youve never played with greg) took account the blinds, the amount of money in the pot and possible draws as well. instead you seemed to avoid thinking about all these factors and just post generalizations to make your points look the least big legitimate. john, on the other hand thought about those things and made a decision that turned out to be correct.

on the other hand there is you. you simply say "hes an idiot for raising with a flush draw and 5 high". this really shows us how little you knew about the hand, the situation and the decision john made. he and i both went to school in santa barbara our freshman year and had lots of mutual friends. i had one of these friends ask him about what was going through johns mind when he made that 3rd raise. john actually thought that raymer thought john was weak (which he was) so john decided raymer couldnt be too strong if he made an overraise into a player he percieved to be weak, so john raised him back to make greg think his read was incorrect. john was correct in doing this and got greg to lay his hand down. this makes me think that the raise WAS amazing. john thought it through very well and made a great play at a great time. but i guess since greg COULD have had pocket kings in this situation(although john thought he didnt and he actually didnt! what a suprise!) so yeah, johns play was really stupid because you need it to be to make yourself not look stupid, good situation to get yourself into.

rj