27s: disagree with SNGPT?

[GotQuads]

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Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Heros calling ranges against:
UTG 28,50 %
CO 32,70 %
Btn 43,00 %
SB 61,70 %

I am just using SNGPT to determine the equilibriums.

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looks reasonable, but imho too tight because:

1) the pushing ranges of the players, what do you use here? Is there a new version of SNGPT that automatically computes them? Note our calling requirements should ideally be player-dependent as well, but we don't have that info here.

2) when folding [in the BB], we get hit by SB again taking a substantial portion of our stack. We probably have to fold that hand, too.

[Bubblefish]

1)
Pushing ranges:
UTG 28,00 %
CO 41,90 %
Btn 54,50 %
SB 83,50 %

Unfortunately you have to play around with SNGPT yourself to find the equilibrium.

2)
Going forward another hand is too much for me… [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[GotQuads]

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2)
Going forward another hand is too much for me… [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well, it's just useful to keep in mind that when folding the original hand, we might easily lose almost 40% our stack. Say we get 73o next hand and a more reasonable hand in the SB (but there's a lot of action) and bam, we sit there with 925 chips rather than 1575.

[elrudo]

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2)
Going forward another hand is too much for me… [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well, it's just useful to keep in mind that when folding the original hand, we might easily lose almost 40% our stack. Say we get 73o next hand and a more reasonable hand in the SB (but there's a lot of action) and bam, we sit there with 925 chips rather than 1575.

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Ok, I might better not let you all in on this little secret, but since no-one has mentioned this yet and because I learned a lot from the STT-forum:

making moves like this from UTG is reasonable, if and only if it is likely that neither of the blinds will bust out this hand.

The 'forward rotating button'-rule on Pokerstars makes that if either of the blinds gets busted this hand, you will skip the big Blind.

The situation this hand:
Hero (t1575)
CO (t1895)
Button (t3515)
SB (t3840)
BB (t2675)

In this case the SB is chipleader and the BB has a reasonably healthy chipstack.

His blind (BB) will very probably be attacked and he might get knocked out, but he needs a very good hand to call a push.

So, in this case I like the 97s push, in situations with desperate stacks in the blinds I prefer to hope for a blindskip.

[GotQuads]

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The 'forward rotating button'-rule on Pokerstars makes that if either of the blinds gets busted this hand, you will skip the big Blind.

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Thanks Elrudo, another detail to consider yes. However, BBs calling range will be fairly tight, so this would only have an impact say 10-15% of the time, and then BB will probably be favorite to win.

[Shillx]

There is no way that pushing is -0.9% (in SNGPT) with reasonable ranges. It is more like -0.2%.

A lot of you are playing this hand like a freezeout if we push and a real SNG if we fold. Of course it would be correct to push under those conditions. The blinds are going to hit us no matter what we do so it isn't like oh [censored] the blinds are hitting us if we fold. Should you push this hand? Maybe but I certainly wouldn't go any lower. Your fold EV (compared to SNGPT) is going to be non-negligible against people who play pretty well and the blinds are going to affect us no matter if we fold/Ww.oSD/W@SD.

And how do you get a push as -0.9%? Aren't low limit players scared to call? FWIW I have the BB calling just over 30% of the time.

[GotQuads]

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The blinds are going to hit us no matter what we do so it isn't like oh [censored] the blinds are hitting us if we fold.

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Ermmm....there's quite a huge difference between doubling up (or at least collecting the blinds) and THEN paying the blinds, or folding and paying them. You seem to be valuing the blinds in some absolute sense which is wrong.

[Bubblefish]

I have used these calling ranges:
CO (16%), Btn (18%), SB (28%) and BB (35%)

What ranges do you find reasonable?