Debate: Teachers Wages

[lehighguy]

When a union gets out of control, the market corrects. Look at the airlines or autos.

Since this is a public good, the market can't correct.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
When a union gets out of control, the market corrects. Look at the airlines or autos.

Since this is a public good, the market can't correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. The "market" can correct by voting down school budgets if union demands somehow got that far out of line.

[revots33]

One thing people are not taking into account is the relative physical comfort/safety of a job like teacher. Most of these types of jobs are held, in the majority, by women.

In "The Myth of Male Power", Warren Farrell talks about a "death benefit" - the higher wages that are often given to men in the most dangerous/stressful occupations. Coal miners, loggers, construction workers, fishers - these are some of the most dangerous and physically uncomfortable jobs. They are also almost entirely male. As tradeoff for likelihood of physical injury and death, a higher wage is often paid.

This is why I get ticked when women complain about men making more money. Do you think most of those guys in the coal mines wouldn't rather be a teacher or a receptionist in a nice air-conditioned office? Or maybe they'd like to stay home with their children?

Equal rights or no, men are still the primary breadwinners, and as such they often are forced to take these dangerous jobs in order to support their families.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a union gets out of control, the market corrects. Look at the airlines or autos.

Since this is a public good, the market can't correct.

[/ QUOTE ]


I disagree. The "market" can correct by voting down school budgets if union demands somehow got that far out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no alternative that can be switched to if the deamnds get out of line. Vote down the school budget? Then the teacher's strike and the product dissapeers. No real alternatives. If the Ford plants shut down due to a strike then GM, Honda or Kia will gladly hop in and grab as much market share as possible.

[TaintedRogue]

If the test to get your teaching creditials is tough enough, then you have resolved the issue of having qualified teachers. So long as you can find enough people willing to teach.
Then all you have to do is provide an environment that is conducive to teaching/learning, and follow it up with proper monitoring.

It's really not that complicated of a problem.

1. Stringent requirements for teaching creditials.
2. Conducive school environment.
3. Effective monitoring of the school system.

There are, contrary to popular belief, many intelligent children living in crime areas and in poverty. Give them the opportunity to compete with the elite and they will bust their ass to get out of the rat hole just like his friend, who has talent at shooting a basketball, busts his ass to get a college scholarship.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I get ticked when women complain about men making more money. Do you think most of those guys in the coal mines wouldn't rather be a teacher or a receptionist in a nice air-conditioned office? Or maybe they'd like to stay home with their children?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thought I'd add to that a bit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Fun thing to consider: if women really do get paid less than men to do the same exact job...then why the [censored] would anyone bother hiring men?

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a union gets out of control, the market corrects. Look at the airlines or autos.

Since this is a public good, the market can't correct.

[/ QUOTE ]


I disagree. The "market" can correct by voting down school budgets if union demands somehow got that far out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no alternative that can be switched to if the deamnds get out of line. Vote down the school budget? Then the teacher's strike and the product dissapeers. No real alternatives. If the Ford plants shut down due to a strike then GM, Honda or Kia will gladly hop in and grab as much market share as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

even teachers strikes can be broken

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
If the test to get your teaching creditials is tough enough, then you have resolved the issue of having qualified teachers. So long as you can find enough people willing to teach.
Then all you have to do is provide an environment that is conducive to teaching/learning, and follow it up with proper monitoring.

It's really not that complicated of a problem.

1. Stringent requirements for teaching creditials.
2. Conducive school environment.
3. Effective monitoring of the school system.

There are, contrary to popular belief, many intelligent children living in crime areas and in poverty. Give them the opportunity to compete with the elite and they will bust their ass to get out of the rat hole just like his friend, who has talent at shooting a basketball, busts his ass to get a college scholarship.

[/ QUOTE ]

A cogent post from TR, how unusual. You only leave out one major factor. Competitive wages to attract those that can pass the stringent tests, who will have other attractive alternatives. Which is right back to the OP.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is why I get ticked when women complain about men making more money. Do you think most of those guys in the coal mines wouldn't rather be a teacher or a receptionist in a nice air-conditioned office? Or maybe they'd like to stay home with their children?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thought I'd add to that a bit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Fun thing to consider: if women really do get paid less than men to do the same exact job...then why the [censored] would anyone bother hiring men?

[/ QUOTE ]

the pay gap has primarily been (since WWII anyway) due to career gaps for child rearing. If a company had to not only give leave for birth/infant care but also give COL and merit pay increases while they were out the gap would be closed...but less qualified women would then be making the same as more qualified men.

[hmkpoker]

I thought you had me on ignore [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]