The big Fossilman hand of yesterday - Page 6

El Diablo · #51 07-15-2005, 01:12 PM

IMO, the only really bad thing that Greg's opponent did was make that size turn raise. If he's going to call Greg's re-raise, he's better off pushing there. In fact, he may well move Greg off of KK with a push there, depending on Greg's read. The guy made an incorrect read based on Greg's flop bet that Greg was weak. Had Greg actually had something weaker and had folded on the turn, would there be this uproar about this hand? I doubt it.

fnurt · #52 07-15-2005, 01:22 PM

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IMO, the only really bad thing that Greg's opponent did was make that size turn raise. If he's going to call Greg's re-raise, he's better off pushing there. In fact, he may well move Greg off of KK with a push there, depending on Greg's read. The guy made an incorrect read based on Greg's flop bet that Greg was weak. Had Greg actually had something weaker and had folded on the turn, would there be this uproar about this hand? I doubt it.

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The question is, though, how many turn cards is he planning to make a move at? If the only point of the flop call is to allow him to semibluff when he gets a heart draw, then it doesn't seem like he gets enough bang for his buck. He needs to bluff big at significantly more turn cards than that, which is a dangerous proposition with Q high and no draw.

There's nothing wrong with acting based on a read that the other guy is weak, but ideally you don't want to bet all your chips on your read being correct (particularly when he never had to get involved here at all). In the real world, I tend to think his flop call was one of those muddled "maybe I'll improve or maybe I'll be able to bluff the turn or who knows, but I don't want to decide yet so I just call." Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.

superleeds · #53 07-15-2005, 01:26 PM

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I tend to think his flop call was one of those muddled "maybe I'll improve or maybe I'll be able to bluff the turn or who knows, but I don't want to decide yet so I just call."

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technologic · #54 07-15-2005, 02:00 PM

in live poker, there is something called reads. you should become familiar with that term.

detroitplayer · #55 07-15-2005, 02:04 PM

I think people are forgetting about MURPH DOG re-raising Greg all in last year with like a 5 high flush draw and straight draw on the turn.

IIRC, people seemed to think that was a brilliant play. Greg could have had KK in that hand too.

Felix_Nietzsche · #56 07-15-2005, 02:07 PM

If you think Kantor made a good play, then I hope that you're at my table in my next tourney. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jordan Olsommer · #57 07-15-2005, 02:08 PM

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in live poker, there is something called reads. you should become familiar with that term.

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Yes, I am somewhat aware of these "reads" of which you speak in this "poker" game. Now, if the board had read 3-5-6-7 (cardplayer incorrectly reported it as such, but hypothetically speaking), and the guy smoothcalled on the flop, and then got into a raising war on the turn, how good do you think your KK might be then?

That was what I was referring to in my earlier post - I'm quite sure that Raymer, as good as he is, didn't put his opponent on nothing but a queen-high flush draw with that betting pattern. Then again, I'm sure someone with your incredible level of skill could discern whether or not he was holding 44 or Ac4c or AA or 33 or 55 or 66 or 77 based on how many times he scratches his nose before he bets.

But thanks for the tip about these "reads". I think I'm getting the hang of it, too - for example, reading your post, I've got a read on you as being a complete ass. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Nez477 · #58 07-15-2005, 02:13 PM

Alright, I need to make my sarcasm more apparent I guess.

Of course it won't mean a damn thing to him. That's why the whole 'bigtime' comment was thrown in there, but it's all good.

Brad

PITTM · #59 07-15-2005, 02:34 PM

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I think people are forgetting about MURPH DOG re-raising Greg all in last year with like a 5 high flush draw and straight draw on the turn.

IIRC, people seemed to think that was a brilliant play. Greg could have had KK in that hand too.

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but he didnt? you seem really big on making up situations that didnt actually happen to make your point. as ive said like 15 times. johns play was good because his read was correct. kantors play was bad because his read was incorrect. get it now? nothing like being completely results oriented...

rj

capone0 · #60 07-15-2005, 02:36 PM

I guess there's one saying it's a good play. As I've said repeatedly I think it was a poor play. With his turn semi-bluff the guy was faced with a short stack or allin proposition and I believe he was getting huge odds on his call so he made a call any pro would have made on the turn. His pf and flop play were piss poor. His semi-bluff was poor, but that's poker.