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#42
02-20-2006, 01:21 AM
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Re: mining the new party
[ QUOTE ]
Getting the HH from the "no player chat" option is not screenscraping. This would be very simple to code. [/ QUOTE ] This is true. I honestly believe that Party's leaving all of the player actions in the "no player chat" option for observers was a mistake. If textbox miners become widespread, party will likely remedy their mistake soon. My miner uses a different method for generating hh's, and there are a few other ways to do it. The main motivation for the service I have proposed, is that Party can't stop it without going to great lengths and signifcantly changing their software. 
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#44
02-20-2006, 01:35 AM
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Re: mining the new party
All I've said is that it is not a text miner, and that there are a few other ways to solve the problem. I don't want to elaborate on the method because I want to make it as difficult as possible for PP to shut us down. I hope most people won't care how we get the hands, but just that our data is accurate and delivered reliably.
It will be easy for anyone to verify whether or not we are giving them bogus data. If they play at the level they want data on, they will be in the dataset and can check hands they played in against their own records.
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#45
02-20-2006, 02:31 AM
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Re: mining the new party
[ QUOTE ]
Well, why don't you elaborate on this method? If it's not a text miner and not a screen scrape, I think you are full of BS. [/ QUOTE ] get over yourself. i really don't think it is THAT hard of a problem to overcome (we are not talking about a multi-functioning HUD here)---also consider it was apparently finished only days after the client going primetime. additionally, the undertaking he proposed with initially free zipped textfiles would immediately clear up any question of authenticity. so call away but i think you likely the one that is way off. cheers, sean ps. i would still LOVE to buy a so-called grey market party datamining program is anyone out there is listening.
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#46
02-20-2006, 03:07 AM
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Re: mining the new party
[ QUOTE ]
Do Party et al not have a clause in their terms stating anything about people taking their data and using it for commercial means? They ought to if they don't. Then they could sue Pokeredge could they? I don't mind keeping histories of games etc but passing around data like this is just a stupid arms race that will benefit no-one in the end. [/ QUOTE ] I would imagine that they do. I can recall way-back-when we used to get hand histories via email, there was a statement in the email saying something to the effect of "This hand history has been provided for your training purposes only, and should not be used for any other endeavour," or something to that effect.
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#47
02-20-2006, 03:40 AM
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Re: mining the new party
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Getting the HH from the "no player chat" option is not screenscraping. This would be very simple to code. [/ QUOTE ] I honestly believe that Party's leaving all of the player actions in the "no player chat" option for observers was a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] this is almost a certainty. the nice thing about party is that they are slow to fix things (the multiple client thing worked for a while and probalby would have continued to do so had they not put out an entirely new client) so this option should be good for at least a couple of months. the other thing you have to realize is their policy is usually out of sight, out of mind. they don't give a [censored] if we are datamining as long as no one is complaining to them that people are datamining. when it came down to removing observed hh's, party only did it because (1) people were complaining, and (2) few sites (most importantly, poker stars) allows it, so they won't lose many players as a result of this. this is why PAHUD won't be banned at party. their goal seems to be to beat poker stars. they likely have no clue about poker. i would doubt that they did this to lessen the edge that good players have. they don't seem to think that way. they seem to always be one step behind poker stars, but they'll stay on top because they have awesome marketing, great bonuses, the r word for some, and the most players.
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#49
02-20-2006, 04:23 AM
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Re: mining the new party
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] HhSmithey, you do realize that there is going to be sampling bias in your poll, right? Another point I'd like to make is that mid-stakes players can pay more than small stakes players. Krishan said she'd pay $100/month for good data. I'd pay about the same. I doubt you'll be finding 3/6 6-max players offering anywhere close to that much. (I know, it's just because I want my data. Feel free to ignore my post. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) [/ QUOTE ] Also, setting up a public website is probably the wrong way to do it. Party has already shown how heavy handed it can get when users to go a website they feel violates their T&C. (PokerEdge, PokerProphecy). Your best bet is to get a group of high limit players who like data and work it out under the table. I wouldn't be suprised if you could clear a decent chunk while staying under the radar this way. Krishan [/ QUOTE ] I agree with both posters here. I for myself would certainly be willing to pay for data from the higher stakes NL. Data from the lower stakes is not as valuable because you will not bump into the same people as often, plus of course that a high stakes player will have more poker money to spend [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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