A hand vs Rizen in stars 109 double stack - Page 4

MLG · #31 04-23-2007, 06:30 PM

...and we are hoping if he has unimproved overs he will catch up.

shaundeeb · #32 04-23-2007, 06:30 PM

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shaun,
the point i think pudge is making, isnt a metagame point. its the idea that calling that flop looks a lot JJ-77, not like a monster or float.

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since we all have said we expect rizen to bet a lot of turns calling with those hands suck since we expect him to bet the turn and then we will have 1/3rd our stack in after the turn with a river dec and no more information on his range. Calling flop with 77-JJ with intention of folding turn sucks and when we get to the turn raisie/calling both suck for the same reasons.

MLG · #33 04-23-2007, 06:33 PM

shaun,
i never said that. i expect rizen to give up with unimproved overs (which would generally make up almost 2/3 of his range)

shaundeeb · #34 04-23-2007, 06:36 PM

I don't think his 3betting range first hand OOP is that wide esp vs a 2+2er

MLG · #35 04-23-2007, 06:38 PM

AK/AQ, AJs? and maybe TT+?

shaundeeb · #36 04-23-2007, 06:42 PM

I think he would flat with AQ with these stacks I know I do, also because of the fact we have 2 aces his range of AK AQ and combinations he can have is soo much fewer.

#37 04-23-2007, 06:44 PM

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AJs

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Que?

MLG · #38 04-23-2007, 06:50 PM

shaun,
so his reraising range is only AK, and TT+.

also, obviously in this case there aren't as many unimproved overs (very few actually) but if we had say TT then calling due to the % of his range that is unimproved overs isnt bad at all.

Kramer,
I really just did that to make my math easier, but yeah prob just AK/AQ.

TheNewf · #39 04-23-2007, 06:52 PM

I hate calling this flop because in theory it should really be a clear raise. However from most TAGs it's a monster like every time, and rizen probably knows that. I've been meaning to try playing AK like this against other good TAGs in cash instead of 4-betting. My problem with calling is that if we then fire big on the turn and river it's going to be obvious we have a huge hand anyways, and something bad might come off, but I guess we can get an extra bet off a lot of hands this way at least. I usually only take this line against people that are likely to keep firing to move me off 77-JJ, but I guess it's probably still best here depending how rizen views you. I still like 4-betting pre though.

shaundeeb · #40 04-23-2007, 06:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shaun,
so his reraising range is only AK, and TT+.

also, obviously in this case there aren't as many unimproved overs (very few actually) but if we had say TT then calling due to the % of his range that is unimproved overs isnt bad at all.

Kramer,
I really just did that to make my math easier, but yeah prob just AK/AQ.

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yah you keep saying this case but I think this hand is bad from a metagame perspective as the frequency is soo rare that shania shouldn't be the reason why you play the hand how you play it. And against that range you really think calling is best?