If only they were aces...

[geestyle]

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Gee, show me some ranges of hands where a fold is correct. Or at least show me some ranges where folding is only a slight error and give me a good reason why I should pass up this edge. (And no, "he might have me dominated" is not a good reason to pass up an edge.)

Steve

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Right, last post on this subject, and remember this is my opinion on this particular situation:

Firstly i play a lot of live poker and my mind isn't as agile as it could be with the maths involved preflop - I gave up on my statistical analysis when I discovered my crystal ball was faulty!

I know here 10's against 2 hands aint all that, hence my approach relys on me reading situations rather than hard figures. I am not disputing the plays being suggested and the figures being quoted - but as I said earlier, chasing 2 raises with 10's when there's a danger of denting my chip stack big time is a no-go for me full stop. Obviously there are times to make a play depending on chipstack and amount of hands - but here when I'm in good shape, no. Generally with 2 raises before me I don't care what they are on, I'll sit back and let them play. If I'm in the closing stages of a tournament I'm looking to open or push against 1 opponent with 10's and if I have people behind so be it but I've made my move on my terms not someone elses which is important to me. I look at the situation and if the guy is making a steal? So what! We all do it and think we're the nuts when we get away with it. My time will come and come soon to make a steal or 2. Chasing is one sure way to bust out. The situation stinks hence I'm out. Yeah - I'm as tight as a rats ass at times! So what?! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Black Aces 518]

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Fold, kiss your 1600 happily goodbye. Difficult to put the SB on a hand here with the info you've got, maybe 2 overcards (JK, JQ?)or Ax. The BB isn't really under pressure with 800 committed. The facts here - button raises 3xBB, BB goes all-in. Initial raise might be a steal attempt but could be a legit hand and with the all-in from the BB i suspect 1 of them has a strong hand which, against potentially 2 hands, puts you in bad shape. Your pot odds are terrible so wait for a better opportunity to gamble.

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Oh come one, lets have some real discussion here. Thats just so weak minded its painful to read. You really assume a monster from a button raise and SB shove? I hope your sitting in the BB everytime i push 78h vs an aggro button.

If we ignore the button for now, as i think if we push, he folds most of the time anyway - we need to put sb on a pretty tight range to make this a fold. AT+, 88+, KQ is basically a coinflip, and with an overlay thats good yes?

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I haven't run the stove numbers, but assuming that the above range is 50/50, then I instacall, as I think SB's range is even wider, maybe AKs-A8s, AK-AT, KQs, KQ-KJ, AA-66?

What would you push in the SBs shoes?

[TwistedEcho]

If im the sb? I push all kinds of crap, possibly even any two if i think button is that active. My range is huge if i'm the sb, but generally i don't assume that random players have quite that wide a range. Even so, as CSC's post indicates, he needs a stupidly tight range to make this a fold.

Sadly my on the spot maths for ranges isn't so great, and i decided to fold to protect my stack. If i was in this spot again, i will repush pretty quickly.

Not that it matters, the SB has AJo and the button called with KQc.

[Black Aces 518]

I likely would have folded too, and then been mad when I really looked at the math of the range.

Agree that results aren't relevant, but knowing AJo is in the range indicates it's not too narrow. I doubt button comes along if you push, but who knows, some people love the pretty suited paint and aren't turning loose ever.