blind defense, ace on turn...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The guy is a LAG.

Bet the turn, but fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this strike you as odd at all?

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]


I know what you mean, and I thought about that when writng the post.

I thought about this some more and think the following line is better:

Bet the turn, if raised, call the turn raise. Then check the river. If he bets the river, fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've got 2nd pair in a blind battle, I'd like to see showdown for 2BB at this point, but make sure and avoid getting raised if I'm behind, but get some value if I'm ahead.

I'm tempted to check/call the turn. The ace is a great bluff card, so we might extract a bluff there. Then donk the river because I want a call from a worse hand suspicious about my river donk or confuse a better hand (such as a weak ace) into just calling.

This way I see showdown for 2 bets, I'm letting the LAG bluff the turn or only get in a 1BB value bet if he's ahead, and I'm donking with a blocking/value bet on the river.

If he raises the river, I can fold.

[krishan]

I don't know why I keep posting these hands.

Someone always suggests bet/fold because it's the standard line. Then someone points out that villain is aggro and we don't want to give him a profitable bluffing opportunity. The we all go back and forth between

check/call, check/call
check/call, check/fold
bet/call, check/fold

And usually late in the game, Nate steps in and says bet/fold is indeed the best play and we are all left to wonder if he doesn't have a good grasp of the metagame or whether 2+2 strategy inbreeding has left us all weak on the turn. (I'm using Nate as a generic example of a high stakes player we all respect)

And the truth is without a REALLY detailed read it's a damn tough spot to be in. And these spots come up all the time where you play back on the flop and the turn puts 3-flush or an A or a K or the 3rd broadway.

And I'd really like to know the right play one day.

I picked check/call, check/fold. River came a K and I check raised and he paid off. I didn't look at his cards but I assume he had an ace.

Krishan

[ QUOTE ]
And the truth is without a REALLY detailed read it's a damn tough spot to be in.

And I'd really like to know the right play one day.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in the same boat. My WTSD% has always been low and so I'm trying to take these types of hands and see showdown as cheaply, but not passively. Against aggro players I've been taking the line: check/call, [bet/fold or check/call] Against passive players I've been taking the line: bet/fold, [bet/fold or check/call]. I vary the river line somewhat randomly just to avoid someone catching on. Often my randomizer is if first card in my hand is black, I push, red, I play passive. Adjusted though depending on the board coloring.

I really don't like bet/fold against aggro players because the pot is usually 3-4BB and if they simply raised me every single turn they'd profit. Plus, the more I fold, the more they take shots at me. I'm already a tight player, I don't want them thinking I'm also weak.

[Renaud Desferet]

Well, bet folding is truly awful.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, bet folding is truly awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why bet-folding the turn has even entered the discussion.

It's either bet-call-decide or check-call-decide.