Late in tourney, AQ in SB facing a Button push

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
So I know this guy who knows a guy who knows this other guy and he said he'd fold. I told my friend that just saying fold without any reasoning is completely useless, and he said "no its ok because he's got a WPT win under his belt."

[/ QUOTE ]

what is the value/point of this post?

I'm simply passing on the opinions of two very successful tourney players, to add to the discussion. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. Just trying to generate a meaningful dialog.

And its not a 'knows this guy who knows this guy', so quit being a prick. My friend is a well known tourney player who asked Fischman and Mizrachi just to get their input.

And frankly, if those two (plus my friend) all think its a fold, then there is room for discussion on the issue.

-Scott

[mikeymer]

i go for a behind the back mouse click for an insta allin push on this one, then i shake my rump because i know im ahead of his range.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
So I know this guy who knows a guy who knows this other guy and he said he'd fold. I told my friend that just saying fold without any reasoning is completely useless, and he said "no its ok because he's got a WPT win under his belt."

[/ QUOTE ]

well played.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I know this guy who knows a guy who knows this other guy and he said he'd fold. I told my friend that just saying fold without any reasoning is completely useless, and he said "no its ok because he's got a WPT win under his belt."

[/ QUOTE ]

what is the value/point of this post?

I'm simply passing on the opinions of two very successful tourney players, to add to the discussion. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. Just trying to generate a meaningful dialog.

And its not a 'knows this guy who knows this guy', so quit being a prick. My friend is a well known tourney player who asked Fischman and Mizrachi just to get their input.

And frankly, if those two (plus my friend) all think its a fold, then there is room for discussion on the issue.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is, you can't just say "so and so" says its a push. It's useless unless they say why. It's as simple as that. We're all reasonably intelligent, thinking, players who can't take "because I said so" as justification. Except from God.

Ansky's point is that citing experts is basically next to useless, unless they give their opinion why.

On the LSAT there's a bunch of different kinds of flaws arguments can make, one of them is "appeal to expert".

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I know this guy who knows a guy who knows this other guy and he said he'd fold. I told my friend that just saying fold without any reasoning is completely useless, and he said "no its ok because he's got a WPT win under his belt."

[/ QUOTE ]

what is the value/point of this post?

I'm simply passing on the opinions of two very successful tourney players, to add to the discussion. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. Just trying to generate a meaningful dialog.

And its not a 'knows this guy who knows this guy', so quit being a prick. My friend is a well known tourney player who asked Fischman and Mizrachi just to get their input.

And frankly, if those two (plus my friend) all think its a fold, then there is room for discussion on the issue.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure if they disagreed this would be a more interesting discussion, but just saying "so and so disagrees" holds no value, and doesn't do anything for a discussion. The reality is you ARE ahead by the buttons range, but a fairly significant amount. So for you to throw at names with no real reasoning while it is intriguing that they would say that, I don't think it really is all that useful. Phil Hellmuth writes some world class bullcrap in his book and articles, so by just being a great player doesn't make what you write gospel.

If you would tell your "friend" that we all await his logic and explanation, then I would think his opinion would be relevent to the discussion.

[Beachman42]

Folding to the FT is worth more to their endorsement deals than playing for first. JMHO.

[A_PLUS]

If villan is folding A9, AT, AJ, 22-JJ, he is incredibly weak.
Unrealistically weak.

If you polled every internet poker forum, they would say, 10xBB is when push/fold becomes standard.

Unless you are going to dispute one of those facts, you can't argue that this call is +++CEV.

So, any arguement comes down to a reason you should pass on an edge at this stage of a tournament. Unless you want to provide some rational why this is correct, you can't honestly expect anyone to see why a deep discussion is warranted.

As a side note, whenever I watch the WPT, I am always shocked at how small the PF raises are, it is somewhat likely that the pros you mentioned may not have analyzed the hand in the correct context.

[THEOSU]

wtf does grinder know, he called all in with AJo to nguyen's fourth raise!!!???


This is an awfully easy call.

[SoBeDude]

If you polled every internet poker forum, they would say, 10xBB is when push/fold becomes standard.

Funny you say this.

Go to pocketfives where my friend posted this hand.

That forum is almost unanimous in it being a fold.

-Scott

[Ansky]

Uhmmm the two are not mutually exclusive.