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#21
03-26-2006, 08:36 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] would like everyone's take on how to beat them. [/ QUOTE ] Clearly the only way is to be create somekind of superbot to fight back. [/ QUOTE ] If they ARE bots and aren't any better heads up than Sparbot or Vexbot on Poker Academy then they shouldn't be too hard to figure out because I beat those two like a drum. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I've played those bots quite a bit and they don't seem as hard as they're advertized to be. And I'm not really into playing HU. Must be some marketing/media hype or something. 
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#22
03-26-2006, 08:38 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
They would be tougher if you didnt know you were playing a bot. You can beat them for sure but put an average player against sparbot under a ub account name for 200 hands and i dont think he beats the rake.
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#23
03-26-2006, 08:41 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
Anyway, I guess my point is that it's a legitimate concern, but nothing to pooh your pants over just yet.
If it does get bad, make sure you have your playing options open when the doomsday switch is triggered. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#24
03-26-2006, 08:45 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
Vexbot switched up on me a few sessions ago and started betting out every flop and 3-betting any raise when in the BB. It beat me that session but I've beat it every time since then once I figured out what was going on.
I wonder if online bots do any kind of opponent modeling like that.
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#25
03-26-2006, 08:58 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
[ QUOTE ]
Vexbot switched up on me a few sessions ago and started betting out every flop and 3-betting any raise when in the BB. It beat me that session but I've beat it every time since then once I figured out what was going on. I wonder if online bots do any kind of opponent modeling like that. [/ QUOTE ] In my limited experience of simulations, bots are not very good at changing gears. There could be some fairly complex bots out there that do a better job at this, though. The one thing that's somewhat amusing to me in retrospect is that I got interested in poker because a couple of my old comp. sci. buddies were interested in creating a bot in the summer of 2004. So I looked into the game and how to play. These guys are really smart (but somewhat misguided, I think), and they have been developing this stuff for awhile getting virtually no where. I haven't talked to them in 3 months, but I doubt they're going anywhere w/ their FR LHE attempt esp. now that the landscape has changed to SH quite a bit. Most of the time they spent procrastinating and working on a generic poker room interface. A couple of months was spent waiting on me to take the lead, but I was busy reseaching the matter to see if it was worth my time. They eventually found a co-worker from Microshaft to take my role. Instead I started learning poker and dumped the whole idea and decided not to join their "team". They wanted me to be the "project manager". I came to the conclusion that it was way too much work...not to mention that I now somewhat have a bias against real money bots now that I at least a little skilled. It's funny how life works. The only thing that I've been hearing from this group is that it's always "almost ready to go live." Sounds like any other software project I've worked on that gets moved back. Eventually, they'll have to move on or get somewhere.
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#27
03-26-2006, 10:17 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if online bots do any kind of opponent modeling like that. the reason the new poki HU bot is so powerful, is because it adapts to your patterns, and profiles your play.. [/ QUOTE ] yes, i was going to post this same exact thing. ive noticed on pokerroom.com that there will be 4 50/100 HU tables with 1 person sitting at each - 4 different players all sitting at a different HU 50/100 table and no one playing them. it always struck me as odd because it would make sense youd have 2 tables with 2 players playing each other, instead of 4 tables with no one playing at all. one reason migth be that each of the 4 know the other four are excellent players and each of the 4 would rather just sit and hope for a fish to sit down, but another explanation would be that its 4 bots who know the others are bots and playing one of your bots against another of your bots wouldnt make sense.
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#28
03-26-2006, 10:39 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if online bots do any kind of opponent modeling like that. the reason the new poki HU bot is so powerful, is because it adapts to your patterns, and profiles your play.. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I know that about the Poki Vexbot but it doesn't make it so powerful that I still don't beat it 4 out 5 times. Although, since I know it's profiling me I play the same hands differently.
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#29
03-26-2006, 10:52 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
My (former) bot;
 I'm a bad programmer and was an even worse poker player at the time. It took me an awfully long time to make it profitable though, and if I went back to it I'm sure I might be able to make it smart enough to play .5/1 or 1/2. Not worth my time though, I decided to actually learn the game and find playing easier than programming AI. This bot had no opponent modeling and played an ABC super tight full ring style. It's scary to think what a minimalist opponent modeling style could do.
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#30
03-26-2006, 11:05 PM
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Re: Poker bots and HU Limit
[ QUOTE ]
ive noticed on pokerroom.com that there will be 4 50/100 HU tables with 1 person sitting at each - 4 different players all sitting at a different HU 50/100 table and no one playing them. it always struck me as odd because it would make sense youd have 2 tables with 2 players playing each other, instead of 4 tables with no one playing at all. one reason migth be that each of the 4 know the other four are excellent players and each of the 4 would rather just sit and hope for a fish to sit down, but another explanation would be that its 4 bots who know the others are bots and playing one of your bots against another of your bots wouldnt make sense. [/ QUOTE ] It's more likely they're just strong HU players who only want to play against fish. HU you get people who just refuse to play players they don't feel that they have enough of an edge over. Re sparbot and vexbot, I think they're really quite weak - I beat them for 5BB/100 when I tried (and I'm no expert, though I do specialize in HU). I can't believe the online bots we're talking about are as bad as that, if they are indeed bots. green_tea
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