Hank Azaria laying down KK.....should I be impressed?

[Mr. Orange]

why is everyone wasting their time analyzing a hand played by Hank Azaria?

[UATrewqaz]

Given the pot odds AND the fact his opponent might not have AA you have to call. There is a chance your opponent is going nuts with QQ, AKs, or heck even the other KK. If it's like 10% it makes a big difference.

[Thundercat32]

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He had correct odds to call even if he knew for sure that his opponent had aces, so it was an awful fold.

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not commenting on this specific play because i know nothing of the variables.
however this comment that he had the correct odds to call even if he knew his opponent had AA is fallacious.

this isn't a cash game and so pot odds are not the sole consideration when making a decision as one cannot rebuy and take advantage of the "long term".

i don't play many tournaments but i do know that a fundemental theory of tournament poker is that it is often times correct to pass on a marginal situation if it will prevent you from taking advantage of a much larger edge later on.

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Thank God someone said it, I've been losing my mind lately listen to players talk about getting the right pot odds to call with the worst hand in tournament play, even at WSOP FTs. I respect Rizen a lot as a player, but even he said this on last Tuesday's ESPN coverage he knew he had the worst hand but said he priced himself into the pot.

You need to have other considerations than pot odds in tournament play especially in the latter stages of a tournament. At the final table pot odds are nearly worthless when you know you have the worst hand. It's not like you're going to be at a WSOP FT next week (possible exception Jeff Madsen) but heck you might not make it back for ten years or ever. I really think this is a critical error in thinking.

[NicksDad1970]

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He had correct odds to call even if he knew for sure that his opponent had aces, so it was an awful fold.

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So just as an example, You're in the ME and you believe someone has aces to your kings. Then your choice is to push the rest of your chips in or keep half. It's still a terrible idea to fold?

I understand the math of it. But I've folded with a smile on my face before when the math tells me to call. It's certainly situational but depending on the chips he had left, where the blinds/antes were folding might have been a great option.

Don't get me wrong.... I don't think I could lay down KK pf unless he showed me AA. There are so many other variables.

[DoGGz]

I don't know anything about the hand, but say I have 10k stack and get 6k+ in with KK, and I'm put all in, I'm not folding for my last 4k even if he flips up his AA. He's getting correct odds even if the op has the ONLY hand that beats him. As someone said before, I bet at least 10% of the time he doesn't have aces, and it is THAT point that makes the call manditory.

I'll love to see your longterm winnings if you continually fold in pots getting good odds even though you think you might not have the best hand...

[gobboboy]

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He had correct odds to call even if he knew for sure that his opponent had aces, so it was an awful fold.

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not commenting on this specific play because i know nothing of the variables.
however this comment that he had the correct odds to call even if he knew his opponent had AA is fallacious.

this isn't a cash game and so pot odds are not the sole consideration when making a decision as one cannot rebuy and take advantage of the "long term".

i don't play many tournaments but i do know that a fundemental theory of tournament poker is that it is often times correct to pass on a marginal situation if it will prevent you from taking advantage of a much larger edge later on.

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Thank God someone said it, I've been losing my mind lately listen to players talk about getting the right pot odds to call with the worst hand in tournament play, even at WSOP FTs. I respect Rizen a lot as a player, but even he said this on last Tuesday's ESPN coverage he knew he had the worst hand but said he priced himself into the pot.

You need to have other considerations than pot odds in tournament play especially in the latter stages of a tournament. At the final table pot odds are nearly worthless when you know you have the worst hand. It's not like you're going to be at a WSOP FT next week (possible exception Jeff Madsen) but heck you might not make it back for ten years or ever. I really think this is a critical error in thinking.

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Well, you're wrong. Not much else I can say.

[Mi_T_Sharp]

Maybe the posters in this forum should just stick to making fun of Jamie Gold when referring to the ME.

Folding KK with 4-1 pot odds. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL........

You might as well just take chunks of your stack, walk around the room, and hand them to anyone wearing a green shirt. I mean, why not?

[Avgard]

Pot odds are not the end all in poker decisions during a tournament.

Example:

Full table with average stacks about 100K. You are on the button with an average stack. Four players before you go all in and they each have you covered. You look down at 22. The pot is offering you >4 to 1. What do you do?

If it will help, the other players have AA, AA, KK, KK. You are sitting at almost 22% to win. Pot odds are clearly in your favor. Are you risking you tournament on your ducks?

You are in better shape on the above example than AA over KK. If the suit of both your kings are alive, you sit at 18.5%. If both covered, only 17%.

I believe that you can lay down an under pair during a tournament, even in the face of >4 to 1 odds if the situation dictates. You do not "always" call or "always" fold, the situation dictates your move.

My two cents.

[Mi_T_Sharp]

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Are you risking you tournament

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OMG...my tourney life is on the line. Please no. I don't want to ever bust in a tourney. I will do whatever it takes to survive.

[Dominic]

I've layed down KK pre-flop twice in cash games (and been right both times - whew!) but I would never lay down KK pre-flop in any normal tournament situation.