50/100 Commerce River Decision

[Dakine69]

I felt villian range on the turn after his 2000 call was:
flush draw-highly likely as I have seen him miniraise with draws before
two pair, set
less likely Ace (not with flush draw since ace of hearts fell on turn)
small chance 3 (I think he pushes with a 3)

[samoleus]

Dakine, what will villain think of you checking back the flop? how often do you return a check, closing the action when you were the preflop raiser (especially heads up to the flop).

[TheGrifter]

Given that you checked the flop (?) you have to raise more on the turn. Nearly half the deck sucks for you on the river given your description of this opponent.

You're beat too often on the river and have too much behind to make a push the best play, your opponents play suggests his hand either got much better or much worse with the river card. Check behind.

[Mr_Donktastic]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt villian range on the turn after his 2000 call was:
flush draw-highly likely as I have seen him miniraise with draws before
two pair, set
less likely Ace (not with flush draw since ace of hearts fell on turn)
small chance 3 (I think he pushes with a 3)

[/ QUOTE ]

Disclaimer: I'll probably never play this high in my life, but fwiw...

I think you have to go with your gut here on the river.

Checking behind him is only a small mistake, but if you have a good reason to think the river boated him and he's capable of checking it for a raise - and you bet and then call a push and get stacked, that is a big mistake. You did think he might have called your turn bet to try to fill up with 2 pr or a set...and the river paired the board! And I just hate the value bet, fold to a push line...I don't get it.

I'd agree with others that if your postflop play was different you'd have a better idea what to do on the river.

[Dakine69]

Sam,

Villain most likely thinks I have ak or some other big card combination if I check the flop. I'm not sure if villian knows my wide range of raising hands even though I haven't raised much so far this session and this is the first time we have played 50/100 together

Results

No doubt I played this hand pretty bad that is why I posted the hand.

The turn, I think a raise of 2500-3000 more in instead of 2k more would of been better even though my 2k raise gave villian about 2.5/1 odds to call for his probably draw and of course gave him plenty of room to make an all in move.

The river is where I thought some discussion would be given the way the hand played out-

villian has about 6k left and the pot is 7300

1)I think an all in given the board pairing is bad for obvious reasons

2)a bet from 3k-5k imo is questionable because given my read of villian's hand ranges, he will only push with a boat and I will be forced to call. I can't see him calling a reraise on the turn with an ace (villian def. reraises pf with ak) and calling a value bet on the river.
If he had A2 he got counterfitted
A4 filled up
A5 is one hand he may call
As I said earlier, villian pushes a 3 prob. 90+% of the time.

3)A small bet of say 1500-2000: Something to consider?
He may call with any hand I beat getting 4.5 to 1
He will push with any boat putting me in a tough spot
He may push (possible but not that high of a percentage) with a missed flush draw, etc. putting me in a tough spot

4) check behind since most likely villian will fold any hand I beat and of course could jeopardize my stack if he filled up (very possible given villian's tendencies)
Of course, I lose some value against the hands I beat and he calls (even though I think in this case there aren't that many hands)

I decided to check riv but I still don't know what the best ev play would be.

Villian didn't show but he mentioned hearts

[CanIPlay]

Please discuss the PF raise in MP with 3-6s. You hit the perfect flop for your hand and made $3700. Do you think you are going to hit a good flop 1 out of 10 times? You are only getting called by better hands that will usually have position on you. If there is a high flop the calling station may keep calling. If there is a low flop he will think you missed and call you down with a mid PP.
I would rather call a PF raise with position with 3-6s. Then you can put him to the test but I am not playing 3-6s for a raise much less raising with it.

[Dakine69]

Can I,

thanks for bringing me to that attention-when it was folded to me I quickly glanced at my hand chart cheat sheet making sure nobody else saw at the table and thought it said to raise not fold [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I will make sure in the future I don't raise this sort of hand in this spot the 10% or so in the future

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I,

thanks for bringing me to that attention-when it was folded to me I quickly glanced at my hand chart cheat sheet making sure nobody else saw at the table and thought it said to raise not fold [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I will make sure in the future I don't raise this sort of hand in this spot the 10% or so in the future

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, all sarcasm aside....you played a marginal hand that other than the occasional c-bet or extended bluff only makes money for you when you extract lots of chips when you hit your miracle flops (trips, house, flush, straight, etc.). To not capitalize on a miracle board for such a marginal hand makes such a hand not worth playing. The fact that you checked just shows further why you shouldn't be playing these hands-the second they're no longer the nuts you freeze up afraid to play with deep stacks. If you're not willing to be aggressive with the nuts and make value bets when the nuts turns to the non-nuts, you shouldn't trust yourself enough to play these hands to make sarcastic comments to people mocking you for not ditching these hands preflop.

[Roman]

dude wtf quit ragging on him, checking behind is NOT that bad. PS, as played I bet 3600 on the river.

[MDMA]

No, it IS that bad.