The big Fossilman hand of yesterday - Page 3

Easy E · #21 07-15-2005, 10:37 AM

I know, I just try to put myself in the situation and think how I might play it out and why.

Easy to criticize when we know what the hands are, but if reading Greg was THAT easy he'd never have made it as far in 2004 or this year.

Kanter trapped himself into the hand, but I'm not sure it was that unreasonable a read. We'd really have to have seen Greg's play during the hands prior to that.

Greg had the same problem on a hand a few days before and runner-runner'd so I guess this was the justice of the poker gods..

If Greg's read wasn't that Kanter's turn raise was weak, would he have called the turn (probably) and folded on the river flush?

Easy E · #22 07-15-2005, 10:38 AM

The turn wasn't the 4-card heart/straight possibility?

What WAS the correct board?

Felix_Nietzsche · #23 07-15-2005, 10:39 AM

Felix-It might be donkey, but plays like this happen all the f'in time. You act like Raymer is the only victim in the world to losing from behind. How many f'in times have all of us lost with AA headsup? It's only a 4 to 1 favorite versus a random hand. Yes it sucks to go down like this and yes I would feel like sh!t if this happened to me. Thing is, Raymer got bad beat for most of his chips, boo hoo. You act like noone ever makes mistakes at poker. Raymer did play it well, he got sucked out on, sucking out is part of poker, Raymer's used to it, I'm used it, maybe your not used to it. Play a tournament online, see how many times you get sucked out on in 200 hands. Sucking out = Poker.
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In the last 2.5 years I have played over a MILLION hands of on-line poker. I have seen it all. Please save your lectures for someone else. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

capone0 · #24 07-15-2005, 10:41 AM

I would feel alot worse for Raymer if on that hand, Raymer went allin on the flop and then got sucked out on by Runner Runner. He didn't. When all the money was put in, Kantor had 9 outs. Not great, not something I would do and probally pretty donkish. I hope he doesn't win, but if he does, it wouldn't be that much of a suprise. You have to get lucky to win tournaments. This is a hand he got lucky on. You guys forget all the hands Raymer sucked out on last year to win the tourney, yes it wasn't many, but it was more than 1. But now Raymer get's sucked out on, when he was a 4 to 1 favorite, boo hoo. Yeah Raymer didn't suck out on 1010 vs AA, or A10 vs AK, or on Matusow. But now that Raymer finally gets sucked out on big time for once in 2 tournies (amazing), we have to feel sorry for him. I'm not that sorry for the guy. He deserves to be patted on the back, he played awesome the last 2 MEs, and finally got a bad beat he couldn't come back to. Sorry guys, but we don't need a kleenex for this one.

capone0 · #25 07-15-2005, 10:42 AM

So why do you make a post like this, and then say I've seen everything. Obviously your used to it, I'm used to it, so is Raymer.

superleeds · #26 07-15-2005, 10:49 AM

And if there were no luck involved Phil would always win [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

durron597 · #27 07-15-2005, 10:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The turn wasn't the 4-card heart/straight possibility?

What WAS the correct board?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was pretty ragged. I think it was like 963 with a 4 on the turn or something. At least that's what Raymer said in his cardplayer interview.

capone0 · #28 07-15-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And if there were no luck involved Phil would always win [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I could play every hand I've ever played perfectly, and still not win every tourney. If played B makes a mistake but sucks out on me, even if I play perfectly, I can still lose. Raymer played the hand perfectly and still lost, not much you can do there. Luck happens [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Felix_Nietzsche · #29 07-15-2005, 10:55 AM

1. PRE-FLOP. Don't call a raise against a bigger stack with a marginal hand. Either Re-Raise or Fold.
2. FLOP. Fold to the bet or reraise representing a small pair.
3. Turn. Call or fold realizing you f***-up the pre-flop and flop. Keep the pot small and hope you hit. When Raymer fired a 2nd barrel at you that should have set off an alarm in your head.
4. River. If Raymer fires a 3rd barrel. EASY Fold if u missed your hand. If he checks then you can make a play for the pot.

Quad_Damage · #30 07-15-2005, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And now Kanter has the chip lead at the final table. If he wins this he will wish his name was Moneymaker.... 2+2ers will rip him a new ***hole. Bigtime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I can imagine him saying something like, "You know, $7.5 million is nice, but really all I want is for 2+2ers to stop ripping me a new ***hole. It really hurts my feelings! :-( "