Poker bots and HU Limit - Page 2

Unabridged · #11 03-26-2006, 06:31 PM

i think if i made a bot to play 15/30 and greater i would have it respond in somekind of random time frame

teddyFBI · #12 03-26-2006, 06:34 PM

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All 3 of these players I have again 100% verified not to be real humans. One trick I have found that works great to deturmine if they are real or not is to sit out then wait a min or 2 then sit back in and they will start back INSTANTANIOUS where they left off and bet or call etc. right away over and over.

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Must be a bot, because if you sat out against me HU I'd be raising every hand while you're gone.

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I'm pretty sure you're missing something here, chief.

Unabridged · #13 03-26-2006, 06:34 PM

wait. you know exactly how these bots play every hand, you play 15/30 and higher, yet you can't beat them? maybe you should move down

GrannyMae · #14 03-26-2006, 06:40 PM

i have no idea of whether you are a KOOK or not, but your post raises an issue.

it used to be that the only way to avoid collusion was to become a HU specialist.

then, the univ. of albeta gang developed a HU poki that is said to be unbeatable over time. the chances of versions of this HU bot showing up on the internet are now very good.

therefore, i firmly believe that the last "safe" games are going to disappear. so, we have to play in games now with more than one opponent, because the AI for that is not *nearly* as developed as the AI for HU.

this means we have to play smart and report suspicous activity quickly. we also have to play at sites that are now looking for multi-acct scumbags, and not at sites where this practice is rampant and seemingly not policed.

Glenn · #15 03-26-2006, 06:54 PM

I'm glad this was posted. I just started playing hu on ub again. I have been a hu specialist since the days of paradise, and I was thinking the same thing. I have played at least 5 people who I was pretty sure were bots, including perrojo. Last night I did a few experiments and pretty much confirmed this, at least to myself. All of the bots play the same, and they are beatable, IMO, but I could be wrong about that. They do make some effort to hide it, but enough has happened where I was pretty sure, and now I'm pretty really sure. I dont want to post the specifics because it would just tell the bot makers how to be less obvious, but if some "respected" poster wants to PM me and hear what I've seen I'm up for that.

kurosh · #16 03-26-2006, 07:03 PM

I don't think this thread should be dismissed. It's been a long time coming. I think it's about time...

Glenn · #17 03-26-2006, 07:08 PM

Exactly. Anyone who remembers Sarahconnor shouldnt be surprised by this. To be quite honest, I wasnt going to say anything because I think I can beat them and saw it as free money, but the more I play them, the more I don't want to play them. Especially if they improve. Plus my last few sessions have been bad, so maybe their "mistakes" are some game theory metagame BS, and I am not a winner. Vexbot and sparbot would likely win at 10/20, so it really wouldnt be that hard for someone to do this.

Glenn · #18 03-26-2006, 07:33 PM

One more thing to add--I was never too worried about bots because when you find someone good hu you just dont play them again, and you really dont lose much in expected value finding this out if you play well. In this case, the bot seems to be playing under a bunch of accounts, so every new player you sit with is the bot. This is not good.

CrayZee · #19 03-26-2006, 08:07 PM

If bots get prolific enough to the point where, say, half of the players online are bots, people are just going to have to play live. It should become pretty obvious when the lower limit games are just as tough as high stakes live games.

Now I don't think bots are inherently evil (unless there's collusion involved), but there's certainly a saturation point. Sites are going to have to fight this problem or potentially risk losing a large percentage of their player base and/or player base growth rate. Sure, there are ignorant suckers out there that would play still...but there are plenty of average bad players out there that want to believe that the world is rigged in some way whether it's a non-random shuffle generator, collusion, bots, whatever. Bad, and good, players still want to believe they have at least a fighting chance to win at poker in a fair game.

Prevention may come at the cost to the end user. Party tried doing the whole pop-up thing that wasn't very popular. I think that the AI is getting better at recognizing things in images; I'm unsure. The one thing that AI isn't really good at is normal, human conversation. I doubt that a bot would say things like "you gotz pwned, you dikshit!!1" Unless, of course, the bot operator is there watching the game. It'll get a little suspicious when all the rooms chat boxes are very silent; or if the same lines of text are repeated in a recognizible pattern (similar to chat room ad bots).

The good news is that online poker is a cash cow so the big rooms have the motivation to do something about it. Long term viability depends on things being on the "up and up". Word will spread pretty fast if things get too bad. Who would knowingly sign up on a site that's infested w/ bots?

grjr · #20 03-26-2006, 08:32 PM

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would like everyone's take on how to beat them.

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Clearly the only way is to be create somekind of superbot to fight back.

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If they ARE bots and aren't any better heads up than Sparbot or Vexbot on Poker Academy then they shouldn't be too hard to figure out because I beat those two like a drum.