Live Turn Checkraise - Page 2

sharpie · #11 07-31-2007, 10:45 PM

I don't get any of it. I think considering capping PF is bad, you want to let button keep the initiative here. I don't get the flop lead, or the 3 bet, or the turn check/raise. Do live players fold AK here?

Mike Gallo · #12 07-31-2007, 11:04 PM

Nice [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Whats your play if you miss your card on the river?
Do you bet insta-muck?

FYI I like this play a lot.

Mike Gallo · #13 07-31-2007, 11:16 PM

All,

Pay attention to the following.... my image is tighter than usual, and i'm running pretty well and up about 30bbs over the past few hours. along with....

a tight player trying to play well 3bets on the button, ....
the tight player trying to play well will know to stay away from hero

now follow the action....

i bet, 2 passives call, button raises, i 3bet, one of the passives now fold, other loose passive and button call .....ok hero bet and three bet oop....button a player trying to play well will notice this...

hero then attempts to convince player trying to play well he has a real hand by i check, LP checks, button bets, and i checkraise.

most players trying to play well will realize the strength of the hand that villian represents and fold.

If player trying to play well calls, hero must bet the river to win the pot. Again he has forced player trying to play well to make a decision. Hero has now reversed position by his aggression.

KitCloudkicker · #14 07-31-2007, 11:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if he sometimes reraises your c/r then you need better odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw most live players are utterly incapable of making this delayed turn raise with AA/QQ. they would just cap the flop.

sharpie · #15 07-31-2007, 11:24 PM

The problem is the pot is 14BB on the turn, and the only hand we can credibly rep that he should fold against is 88. Unless he's a real weak tighty he'll think AQ/AK is possible and calldown.

Aces McGee · #16 08-01-2007, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
most players trying to play well will realize the strength of the hand that villian represents and fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, I almost agree with you. But much of the range that James is trying to represent doesn't make sense given preflop.

I suppose the pot is big enough that it doesn't have to work all that often -- particularly since James' draw is very live and he could still catch up if behind. But the pot being big means the villain is calling more, too. And there's a pretty decent chance, with this board, that the villain has a big piece and is never folding.

-McGee

ProfessorBen · #17 08-01-2007, 12:46 AM

I will post the analysis tomorrow, but what I'm starting to tell people is that if your play is so read based and so strong, just do it without having to post/ask.

TripleH68 · #18 08-01-2007, 01:20 AM

As a former simpleton prone to weak tightiness who doesn't play much anymore let me add this to the discussion:

If I am button trying to play well then
1) I want to avoid James.
2) I know bet/3-bet is often a big hand going for value.
3) The flop seems drawless(double-gutter is well hidden).
4) Even with the double-gutter, did he raise JT in EP?
5) I just got suckered into a turn check-raise(rainbow board).

Now I am thinking
1) The pot is big.
2) Does James want LP to fold and why?
3) With what hand does James risk the turn checking through?
4) Will I look like a stooge if I call this down with AK/AJ or less?
5) What hand does LP have? Another ace?
6) James potential monsters are AQ,AA,QQ,88.

I see the merit because, correct me if I am wrong, this 'play' is costing you only 1BB on the turn in a big pot. If called in two places you are giving up a smaller amount in exchange for deception. As for winning the pot ui without showdown - smells like a longshot. The fact that you have a lot of chips in front of you makes me want to stay to the end.

James. · #19 08-01-2007, 08:41 AM

fwiw, on two occasions i raised UTG, once with AA and once with AKs, got 3bet and only called pf. the AK hand was multiway and the AA hand was HU. most all of the table is aware of this; especially since i flopped a set with the AA hand and when the smoke cleared nobody could believe it when i flipped it over beating a set of 7s.

Mike Gallo · #20 08-01-2007, 08:50 AM

Mike, I almost agree with you. But much of the range that James is trying to represent doesn't make sense given preflop.

As a player that trys to play well, I would put James on a hand like AQ given the way he played it. He raised first in and called a reraise preflop. I bet a player like James has played AQ that way over the course of his poker career.