KK late $10 180...as chip leader facing loose big stack push on flop - Page 2

ssnyc · #11 07-03-2007, 11:27 AM

don't see reason to check this flop...if I had AK and missed I would bet it same (maybe a bit less) and villan should know that...would he push with any pair or a flush draw if he puts me on an overbet C-bet steal? I have what looks like a great flop for KK with a villan who doesn seem to mind getting nuts...I need a strong reason to fold here even though it is a critical spot chipwise

tomek322 · #12 07-03-2007, 11:33 AM

Any other hands that opp played you may have noted? That 2 4 hand, did he CR as well?

In reality I'm probably calling, and further calling this guy an idiot for calling my raise with T9s or 78 suited and rivering me.

The more I think about this hand, the more I think it's a fold. Why is it our nature just to assume people are bluffing with nothing?

JoeyJoJo Shabadu · #13 07-03-2007, 11:38 AM

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don't see reason to check this flop...if I had AK and missed I would bet it same (maybe a bit less) and villan should know that...would he push with any pair or a flush draw if he puts me on an overbet C-bet steal?

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then call... you gave him the image you wanted and are in the spot you wanted.

JoeyJoJo Shabadu · #14 07-03-2007, 11:40 AM

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Why is it our nature just to assume people are bluffing with nothing?

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Because if you didn't defend sometimes or you did assume the worst everytime you were raised, you would be weak and a target and lose badly.

tomek322 · #15 07-03-2007, 11:45 AM

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Because if you didn't defend sometimes or you did assume the worst everytime you were raised, you would be weak and a target and lose badly.

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lol... call every raise don't get run over, will never get bluffed, but you'll be broke.

tomek322 · #16 07-03-2007, 11:47 AM

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don't see reason to check this flop...if I had AK and missed I would bet it same (maybe a bit less) and villan should know that...

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How and why did you come to this conclusion? If you think he's a donkey than he really doesn't think much about anything, if you think he's a thinking opp do you think he's stacking off on a bluff?

Dunkman · #17 07-03-2007, 12:00 PM

Tomek you're wrong, and at this point you're just trolling, which is pretty sad in a strategy forum.

You have to call, this could be any PP, expecting you to have 2 high cards. I'm not saying he can't have a 9, but it's more unlikely than say if the board was QQ6. It could also be 87, a flush draw...this is a snap-call. It's not close...it's not close to being close, you absolutely have to call here every single time or you're just lighting money on fire. This is not my opinion on the hand, it's a fact, and if anyone doesn't understand/think it's a call then that's a pretty serious leak in your game that you need to address.

edit: Oh yeah, and one of the good reasons we bet the flop is so he'll push over our bet as a bluff thinking it's just a cbet. If we check, then he bets and we push and instead of getting his whole stack we only get the cbet.

tomek322 · #18 07-03-2007, 12:43 PM

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edit: Oh yeah, and one of the good reasons we bet the flop is so he'll push over our bet as a bluff thinking it's just a cbet. If we check, then he bets and we push and instead of getting his whole stack we only get the cbet.

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Sweet, than everything happened as planned.

Results?

EDIT: I'm not trolling, especially since this is a strategy forum, I don't think just saying "put it in he's a donk" is very indepth analysis of the situation. And analyzing the validity of folding isn't exactly just stoopid or wrong.

tomek322 · #19 07-03-2007, 12:45 PM

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I think this is a flushdraw with an over, or FD with gutshot most of the time, worse PP some of the time, and the 9 some of the time. Don't ask percentages, I suck at math.

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never said anything else... so your flipping a coin as to what he has. We dominate PP, flipping with flush draws, and getting crushed by a 9.

ssnyc · #20 07-03-2007, 12:55 PM

tomek...i'm not so much disagreeing with you but play gets so loose at these that I've seen villans push with 22 in this spot...kinda skews your read when you see some of the stuff people do...calling is out because I can't see folding if he bets out the turn...

A fold is no unreasonable at all but I want to make sure I have a good reason first