KQs against an unknown raiser. Preflop question

[fretelöo]

Oh my, now it's getting in that dreaded area of ifs, whens and maybes again... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I cold called, half the table came for the ride (well, that's like 5*wrong equals right) and I folded on a very uncooperative flop.

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Just to get this right: I'm cold calling here because I have a strong hand that plays especially well in multiway pots. Thus, while I might be just about break even against your usual .1/.2 guy and might even have some postflop skill edge (who knows...), 3betting would likely leave me HU with a hand that is often dominated and therefore hard to play post flop without a read on the guy.
However, by just calling, giving everyone the chance to come along, I give up a lot of my TP equity for an increased flush and straight equity.

Right?

[Big Folder]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh my, now it's getting in that dreaded area of ifs, whens and maybes again... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
I cold called, half the table came for the ride (well, that's like 5*wrong equals right) and I folded on a very uncooperative flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to get this right: I'm cold calling here because I have a strong hand that plays especially well in multiway pots. Thus, while I might be just about break even against your usual .1/.2 guy and might even have some postflop skill edge (who knows...), 3betting would likely leave me HU with a hand that is often dominated and therefore hard to play post flop without a read on the guy.
However, by just calling, giving everyone the chance to come along, I give up a lot of my TP equity for an increased flush and straight equity.

Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it.

[RemyXO]

How about this - aggressive UTG raises, 3 people cold-call and you are in CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Raise, call or fold?

[fretelöo]

[ QUOTE ]
How about this - aggressive UTG raises, 3 people cold-call and you are in CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Raise, call or fold?

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Raise. There was a hand, just yesterday or so, like this.

Same concept: You're likely behind UTG, but the others make more than up for that.

[Poker Plan]

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Ok. Worst case scenario: Noone is calling except us.
Then we put 2SB into the pot of 5.5SB, 5SB after rake.
2/5 = 40%.
No?

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While you are mathematically correct (I think [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), would you really want to go into the hand break-even, and possible be WB to a dominating hand?

Easy fold. Better spot coming along shortly.

[Poker Plan]

[ QUOTE ]
How about this - aggressive UTG raises, 3 people cold-call and you are in CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Raise, call or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call.

I realise we probably have a slight equity edge for every bet that goes in PF. But with this hand it a very definite IN or OUT depending on the flop- so I'm seeing that before investing too much.

[Aaron W.]

I like to 3-bet this to isloate heads up with position. KQs is a pretty good hand and I've got position. I have no reason to think UTG is a particularly tight raiser, plus I've got position.

3-bet and see what happens.Woory about AK/AA/KK/QQ when you get capped preflop.

[Ricks]

Take Ed Miller's advice. Do not CC an UTG raise when no else has CC in front of you. You need at least AK to play here unless you know that UTG has loose raising standards. If you are going to play you should 3-bet.

[OziBattler]

Im folding KQs in the OP and Im calling AJs in freteloos spot. There aint many (textbook) hands that I cold call with in that spot but AJs is one of them. I'd also be looking at the VPIP and PFR stats of said opponents to see if I see anything that warrants anything different.

[Ricks]

If you go by SSHE, the pf raising range for early position is TT+,AJs+,AQo+. These are the PS results for AJs against the raiser's range.

349,310,016 games 0.005 secs 69,862,003,200 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.231% 63.39% 03.84% 221441676 13401630.00 { TT+, AJs+, AQo+ }

Hand 1: 32.769% 28.93% 03.84% 101065080 13401630.00 { AJs }

The problem with AJs is that you are dominated by so much of the raiser's range. The suitedness is not worth the complete 6% (chance of making a flush) of equity because of the times you will not be able to correctly call a bet on the flop. Even if you get a few players to follow you into the pot, you will not achieve your fair share of equity.

If you have reads that the UTG raiser will raise with a very large range of hands I believe the best thing to do is to 3-bet. Fold out an AQ or even another AJ. Do not give the BB great odds to play his hand. You are better off getting the dead money.