WCOOP $1050 NL. QQ in MP

[FortunaMaximus]

Fiks? <squints> Heh.

[Cornell Fiji]

I don't think that a reraise pf necessarily rules out AA/KK.

To be honest, I was in a chip position where I was willing to happily fold to a flop bet if an A or K flopped and decided that adding 3k to my stack with a pfr was not worth substantial here. Because of my chip position I wanted to try to take down a more substantial pot here with a good flop or lose the minimum and go on to the next hand.

I hit my good flop. I was still behind 88 (slightly discounted,) TT, KK, AA (he is not raising UTG with 22 here) but I wanted to take it down here so a raise was in order... Is this a push or a raise of 8k and reevaluate... or am I way off in my reasoning here?

[Frank Zappy]

By calling PF we gave MP1 no reason to put us on a Big Hand.

From his point of view all he has to do is push you out of the way now to collect the pot. His bet sizes seems to indicate that he does not want to continue the hand.

It's really all instinct from here...smooth calling here is just cold blooded and ruthless. You know what it feels like to try to push someone off a hand and they're still sneaking behind you like a ninja, right? If we have him on A or K and turn is a blank, he's going to have to check and give it up.

But, the more reasonable course of action is to fire $8-12K back at him, good chance he's laying it down here.

[CardSharpCook]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!! IT GOES BET, RAISE, RE-RAISE. THERE HAS BEEN NO RAISE ON THE TURN. YOU CAN'T RE-RAISE AS MUCH AS YOU MAY WANT TO.

[CardSharpCook]

ok, as for the hand, I'm raising PF for the simple reason that the PFR didn't raise enough. 1600 at the 3/6 level allows for others to easily CC behind you, not to mention offering the blinds a great price if you CC. It is perfectly fine to call PF, but in this situation, being in MP and all, let's go ahead and re-raise this.

OK, we didn't. We CCed. fine. Flop is low, PFR bets a standard amount. I don't like just calling as it allows BB to peel with a bunch of hands that may include str8 draws, aces and kings. I like a raise. How much? Well the stack sizes make this interesting. we have about 23k in our stack. I don't like putting out half my stack on this bet. 12k here, and now the pot is like 30k and we've got 11k on the turn. A push is a little awkward too. 23k to pick up 9.5K? It ain't terrible, but you'll probably just get a fold. Isn't bad though, cuz you might get a call from any ten. How about raising to 9k? If neither player has nothing, this bet will take down the pot. It also gives your opponents a chance to think "he's bluffing. I can take this from him if I push."

You are going broke here, of course.

[CardSharpCook]

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His bet sizes seems to indicate that he does not want to continue the hand.

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um.... what? just what about his bet sizes indicate this to you? I want to know, because I want to know how to communicate with fish in the future.
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It's really all instinct from here...smooth calling here is just cold blooded and ruthless. You know what it feels like to try to push someone off a hand and they're still sneaking behind you like a ninja, right? If we have him on A or K and turn is a blank, he's going to have to check and give it up.

[/ QUOTE ] WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? what is cold-blooded and rutheless about just calling? So you just call here and you are a ninja??? What is he "giving up"??? So, you're convinced that he is not going to bet any turn if he doesn't have a pair.... so you want to "be a ninja" and just call here??? Allowing him to bet your hand for you is a viable option, but you seem convinced that he is not going to do this... but you want to "be the ninja" anyway?
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But, the more reasonable course of action is to fire $8-12K back at him, good chance he's laying it down here.

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LAYING WHAT DOWN??? Now we're bluffing here to get him to lay down AA/KK????

[CardSharpCook]

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I would put in a re-raise. Even with the tight table, that looks to me like a continuation bet as much as anything. I think it is at least an easy call, but I would reraise to put some pressure on him.

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oh, ok, so you're not thinking about folding to his flop bet???? interesting. Good luck with "re-raising".

[CardSharpCook]

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Question is if you like your QQ enough to felt with it. Reraising will tell you that, and let you decide on flop instead of cold-calling bigger bets and a possible AI on river. Don't give him a chance to peel or draw cheaply.

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Oh, so we're going to think about folding our overpair after putting in 60% of our stack in and got the 2nd best flop we wanted.

[Frank Zappy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His bet sizes seems to indicate that he does not want to continue the hand.

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um.... what? just what about his bet sizes indicate this to you? I want to know, because I want to know how to communicate with fish in the future.
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Why bet almost Pot Size if you have AA/KK and are looking for a call?

It's really all instinct from here...smooth calling here is just cold blooded and ruthless. You know what it feels like to try to push someone off a hand and they're still sneaking behind you like a ninja, right? If we have him on A or K and turn is a blank, he's going to have to check and give it up.

[/ QUOTE ] WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? what is cold-blooded and rutheless about just calling? So you just call here and you are a ninja??? What is he "giving up"??? So, you're convinced that he is not going to bet any turn if he doesn't have a pair.... so you want to "be a ninja" and just call here??? Allowing him to bet your hand for you is a viable option, but you seem convinced that he is not going to do this... but you want to "be the ninja" anyway?
[ QUOTE ]

But, the more reasonable course of action is to fire $8-12K back at him, good chance he's laying it down here.

[/ QUOTE ]

LAYING WHAT DOWN??? Now we're bluffing here to get him to lay down AA/KK????

[/ QUOTE ]

I must have missed the part of the thread where he does a Jamie Gold and tell us, "I have AA and a sick parent so you'd better fold" I'll read closer next time.

I based my analysis on the fact that we showed no strength PF and it looks like we're getting bet off the hand.

Also, you might want to switch to decaf and stop the personal insults.

[jason75]

I don't play at these buy ins, so maybe I'm full of crap. If I were to take a stab at this hand, it would look something like this:

PF - Seems like you'd want to RR PF. MP1 makes the 2.6 bb raise, your call just invites a lot more people into the pot (it would be nice to see all the remaining stack sizes). Cold call isn't horrendous but doesn't build the pot when we're crushing villian's range or shut out a lot of callers with speculative hands behind.

Flop -My god that's a great flop. Villian leads straight out. Would he do this with the nuts (TT/88?). Seems unlikely. Would he do this with AA/KK? It's seems as likely as checking, as there's only you left to bet it for him. And I think he c-bets anything else he raised with after the BB check. As for your action, there's such a small chance the A or K will come on the turn (17%), the pot will be fairly large on the turn if we call, and we have position on both villians.

We've got an overpair on a fairly weak board. We're crushing both villain's ranges. If we think that one of them will not lead on the turn if we call, then I like the smaller raise trying to induce a bluff push.

If one of them is likely to bet the hand, then I think calling the flop is a much better play. If neither bite on a brick turn (non A/K), then I think you want to fire about the pot out there to make it look like a steal in position and induce a push.

Pushing the flop seems pretty horrible, as only AA/KK/TT/88 (maybe BB's T8s/22) calls here (though you mostly pick up the pot).

I think this is a hand where if you're willing to take a little risk, you have the potential to double up or better.