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#102
06-13-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
to all the people who say he went through a field of 2600 and won because it was a donk filled field and that proves nothing, gobboboy said that he went to montecarlo because it was filled with horrible players, gobbo got 2nd and he is [censored] praised for being god,playing in a donkey filled field as well, every field has bad players so take advantage yourself instead of bashing players who know how to
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#103
06-13-2007, 02:06 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
[ QUOTE ]
to all the people who say he went through a field of 2600 and won because it was a donk filled field and that proves nothing, gobboboy said that he went to montecarlo because it was filled with horrible players, gobbo got 2nd and he is [censored] praised for being god,playing in a donkey filled field as well, every field has bad players so take advantage yourself instead of bashing players who know how to [/ QUOTE ] Agreed....People talk smack on Phil because they cannot stand it when he wins. I think that is more hilarious than his blowups.
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#104
06-13-2007, 02:32 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
listen, the fact you think that he's won 11 bracelets makes him the best nl player in the world shows your incompetance at determining that status.
You don't get it, simple as that. he's a mediocre at best cash game player. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] to all the people who say he went through a field of 2600 and won because it was a donk filled field and that proves nothing, gobboboy said that he went to montecarlo because it was filled with horrible players, gobbo got 2nd and he is [censored] praised for being god,playing in a donkey filled field as well, every field has bad players so take advantage yourself instead of bashing players who know how to [/ QUOTE ] Agreed....People talk smack on Phil because they cannot stand it when he wins. I think that is more hilarious than his blowups. [/ QUOTE ]
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#105
06-13-2007, 02:43 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i hope this is a leveling thread, he isnt even in the top 1000 best cash game players, probably not the top 15,000. So he is nowhere near the best NLHE player, you could say that he is one of the top live NLHE tourney players of all time, he beats weak fields and plays all tournies. [/ QUOTE ] hahaha...this is good stuff. I think over 100 top pros were in Event 15 with him. [/ QUOTE ] It doesn't matter that 100 good players were in Event 15. There were 2400 complete [censored] donkeys. I played in it. It was an amazingly soft field. I played with 30-40 different players, and I only played with one decent player other than myself, and I am nowhere near Phil's skill level. Why do people keep saying this stuff. [/ QUOTE ] Okay. All the players are donkeys in these tournaments that Phil has won. If there was even one pro in those fields, why did that pro (or all the other pros for that matter) take advantage and beat the donkeys to the tune of eleven bracelets. There was/is nothing stopping Negreau, for instance, or any other name pro from winning eleven bracelets so why have they not done so? [/ QUOTE ] They're working on it? Or luck? Someone has to run the hottest, you know. You make it sound like its impossible that a marginally better player could win less bracelets than a marginally worse player. Asked a different way, what do you think Hellmuths true expectation in bracelets is, over his career thus far? You think its more or less than 11? [/ QUOTE ] People have not been talking marginally worse, people have been saying Hellmuth superdonk. As for luck, someone has to run the hottest, hahahahaha. Yeah, it is all luck baby. [/ QUOTE ] It sounds like you have a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of how poker works. It would probably help you a lot to try to answer my question. What do you think Hellmuth's true expectation is for bracelets thus far in his career? Do you think its greater or less than 11? Also, pretty much everyone in this thread is saying he is at the very top of HE live tournament players. No one is saying he is a super donk. They are simply saying its possible there are a few guys marginally better than them. He's obv in the top 1%. Or top .1% or whatever. Hope that strawman works out well for you though!
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#106
06-13-2007, 02:44 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
He's the best NL Hold Them tournament player in the world, I don't think there's any arguing that point. This is true because he makes sure bad/decent players go broke to him. Now, this may not be as sexy of a skill as being able to beat the best in the world every day in a cash game, but it's just as profitable.
edit: also, like someone else mentioned, Doyle says he's the best NLHE tourney player...that's good enough for me.
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#107
06-13-2007, 02:48 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Or luck? Someone has to run the hottest, you know. You make it sound like its impossible that a marginally better player could win less bracelets than a marginally worse player. Asked a different way, what do you think Hellmuths true expectation in bracelets is, over his career thus far? You think its more or less than 11? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure I would say that Hellmuth's true expectation was less than 11 bracelets. Sure you have to get very very lucky to win a 3,000 player tournament. But check out his earlier record, especially 1992-1996. He was crushing tournaments that weren't the WSOP, weren't NLHE, and had smaller fields much more concentrated with pros. If he was just lucky to win 11 bracelets, he wouldn't have the record for most WSOP cashes as well. He's made eight Omaha final tables without ever winning a bracelet...you have to figure he got unlucky at somepoint there, right? [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't saying its less either, it may very well be more. I was just trying to get some of the...ahem...differently-abled posters to think about this the correct way. Its absurd to just say "ZOMG none of you have 11 bracelets he does he's the best LDO." Especially when comparing him to other players. He has lots and lots and lots of tournaments, but the long run is sooooo long, especially in events like this. But just think of how few bracelets 11 really is, over the course of a lifetime? He could very easily have one just ONE more or less, an that would be a huge difference. Thats how volatile his record is. It is entirely possible his expectation is actually 13 or 15 or something. I'm quite aware there isn't going to be an objective way to even determine it. But thats the way you need to look at this. He could very possibly be running 1 or 2 bracelets above expectation, and maybe someone else is running a few bracelets below. Just like that, the people who are saying "Hold on, Phil is very, very good at HE tournies, but he isn't NECESSARILY the absolute best" start to sound a lot more reasonable.
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#108
06-13-2007, 02:52 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
[ QUOTE ]
He's the best NL Hold Them tournament player in the world, I don't think there's any arguing that point. This is true because he makes sure bad/decent players go broke to him. Now, this may not be as sexy of a skill as being able to beat the best in the world every day in a cash game, but it's just as profitable. edit: also, like someone else mentioned, Doyle says he's the best NLHE tourney player...that's good enough for me. [/ QUOTE ] Doyle says lots of things. If thats really 'good enough for you' then....I don't know what to say. The guy is a hustler. I don't mean that in a negative way, just LOL at 'his offhand comment is good enough for me.'
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#109
06-13-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] where did all the morons and their favorite online pros finish if it was such a easy field? If it is not about where they finished then do not say helmuth went through a donkey field. Your online guys had the same opportunity so sorry if they could not take advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Nobody ever said Hellmuth wasn't a good player. I just said that the field in the 1500 wasn't a hard field. It was still massive, and still give Phil tons of credit for making it deep. But trying to argue that the 1500 field wasn't easy is pretty ridiculous. It was donktastic, why do you think all the pros are playing in the events? lol [/ QUOTE ] they are playing for bracelets, ivey a pro who never plays wpt pre lim events is playing these pre lim for bracelets, not because it is easy [/ QUOTE ] nope. he had previously said he only planned to play the 50k horse and the main event. then, pokerwire reports, he made a big sidebet with elezra about who would have a bigger series. after that bet was made ivey decided to play more events.
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#110
06-13-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: Hellmuth\'s Place?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He's the best NL Hold Them tournament player in the world, I don't think there's any arguing that point. This is true because he makes sure bad/decent players go broke to him. Now, this may not be as sexy of a skill as being able to beat the best in the world every day in a cash game, but it's just as profitable. edit: also, like someone else mentioned, Doyle says he's the best NLHE tourney player...that's good enough for me. [/ QUOTE ] Don't you know these guys on here know more than Doyle....just ask them and they will tell ya. Doyle says lots of things. If thats really 'good enough for you' then....I don't know what to say. The guy is a hustler. I don't mean that in a negative way, just LOL at 'his offhand comment is good enough for me.' [/ QUOTE ]
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