Help -- I have NEVER seen this happen before.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even going to lie, I've forgotten to burn, and I've overburned too(somehow?)
You know what I do?

The logical thing. ...Nothing.

Your floor sucks and I would have at least gotten a food comp, I'm pretty sure I would have kicked that dealer in the face. Maybe Dicelump knows who it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've almost always gotten along with dealers very well; I think that, by and large, they do a fine job and make the play more enjoyable. My goal is not to rip dealers or make them look bad; I just feel that this was handled very poorly. By me as well as everyone else involved.

[AngusThermopyle]

fishes two cards out of the muck.

Burn cards are supposed to be kept separate from the muck, that way you can count them.

I would have screamed bloody murder and the pot would not have gone anywhere until the floor made a decision (but from your description, I'm not sure the floor would be of much help).

[DZgroundhog]

This really surprises me. I've never had a bad experience with dealers or the floor at Seneca. Any idea which dealer it was?

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with the board being corrected here since there was no possible action at the time the error was made.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't either, but is there a rule that relates to this situation? I'd be surprised if it's totally discretionary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well since your focus seems to be on whether the dealers putting out a tunr and river and declaring a winner terminates the opportunity to correct a mistake, the general rule is that a decision or ruling (in this case correcting the mistake of the overburn) may be made regarding a hand up until the next deal starts.

As such if the floor had been called over by the dealer when he realized his error, the floor could have replaced the turn and river with the "proper" cards even though the dealer had already declared you the "winner."

[Masquerade]

That will teach you to play when the dealer's mother is in the pot. Seriously though, this is horrific. It seems highly suspicious to me as well ... almost as if he'd set the queen up to be dealt and then screwed up and burned it. There is a very non-trivial chance that this game is crooked.

[smoore]

Oh man, how wrong can the staff make this?

1) he's burning into the muck?
2) he's pulling cards out of the muck?
3) players are reaching for pots?
4) he makes his own decisions?
5) he refuses your request to call the floor?
6) the floor tells you "tough luck" without so much as an offer for a comp?

That dealer would be out the door if I was his boss. He wouldn't even finish his down. Not because he made a mistake but because he "fixed" it himself and refused a customers request to speak to the manager about it.

Hell, the mistake doesn't even matter, the're only burn cards. It's still random whether he makes this mistake or not.

I don't know where Seneca is, but if it's not the only card room in town I'd write a letter to management describing what happened and find a room where they have at least half of a clue. If it is the only game in town at least you know to yell, "FLOOOOOOR!" while you hang onto your cards now.

In the case of this dealer, I wouldn't tip him again... at least until you've made up the pot that this dealer stole from you. What a chode.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
he's pulling cards out of the muck?

[/ QUOTE ]

It all happened so fast, and if he had kept the burn cards separated from the muck, it was difficult for to distinguish. There was a pile of cards there, and it did not appear to be separated, though in the dealer's defense, he might very well have known which cards were which.

[SoothSabre]

Is there an official "rulebook" that would explain what is supposed to happen in these situations ?

[youtalkfunny]

I'm not familiar with this casino. Is it overseen by a Gaming Commission?

Here is what you should have done:

1. DO NOT LET GO OF YOUR ACES UNTIL YOU GET THE MONEY. Dealer won't call the floor to rule on the hand? Well then, he's going to need to call somebody to get these two cards out of my hands.

2. Do not let that pot get pushed. Lay on the table if you need to. Make it clear to all involved that this game is at a halt until a floorman gets there. I'm not joking.

3. If the burn cards really are in the muck (you sound new, and may not realize that not all facedown cards are mucked), accept nothing less than the pot.

4. If all else fails, ask the floor to call the Gaming Commission. Inform the floor that Gaming will want to see the videotape of this hand.

5. If there's no Commission to call (which is usually the case in an Indian casino), then why on earth are you playing there? You're SOL.

[smoore]

there's "Robert's rules of poker" (Bob Caffione). Each card room keeps thier own modified version of these AFAIK. In any case, the dealer isn't supposed to fix a mistake, that's the floor's job. Dealers make mistakes, floor managers fix them.