Sometimes SNGs aren't poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed? - Page 8

Nicholasp27 · #71 03-24-2006, 05:05 PM

i thought if u both call, then bb is in the hand...he only autofolds if more chips are put into the pot...but if it's just flat called and then checked down, i believe he stays in the hand

does anybody know 100% on party? on stars?

Ditch Digger · #72 03-24-2006, 05:05 PM

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Spend 200 now, to be able to play "normally" and not lose 500, 800, 1100, later? Or fold and continue this awful cycle?

The obvious choice is to end it...If that means just calling then so be it. I am calling here with 32o and as well with QQ, there is little to no difference in mind.

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well there isn't an awful cycle yet...i agree to minraise any2 next round IF sb folds here...but we don't yet know that he'll do that...there is no awful cycle until sb decides to fold to bb

and we can't just call, as that gives bb a 'flip's' chance of increasing in stack size...has to be a minraise if we play (or push if u swing that way), not a call

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Big blind had 330 before posting the 200 blind. The only he can get to a showdown and win this hand is if he somehow puts that other 130 in the pot which if he's sitting out is impossible. If big blind had 150-200 chips before posting calling is probably not our best option.

Ditch Digger · #73 03-24-2006, 05:06 PM

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i thought if u both call, then bb is in the hand...he only autofolds if more chips are put into the pot...but if it's just flat called and then checked down, i believe he stays in the hand

does anybody know 100% on party? on stars?

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Nobody is checking it down. Min bet the flop.

TightIsRight · #74 03-24-2006, 05:06 PM

he will autofold it you both just call on Stars

edit: sitting out hand will be automucked no matter what on Stars when he still has chips. I believe this is also true even if he would be allin

BadMongo · #75 03-24-2006, 05:08 PM

Also, SB is not calling 100% if we move all-in. A different tighter range could actually lower the EV of moving all-in.

Nicholasp27 · #76 03-24-2006, 05:10 PM

i know nobody will check it down if he comes along for the ride...but if he is autofolded (as tight says), then u don't even have to minbet...which means it's def better to call than minraise here (unless u believe the FE of minraise (gain=300 chips) is greater than the 200 chips u put in...i don't)

i still like folding until sb proves he knows how to fold to bb

but i believe we've gotten all the options now...it's all a matter of how much weight u give to them...i think he steals bb here most of the time so i fold...u think he keeps shorty alive most of the time, so u call

pooh74 · #77 03-24-2006, 05:11 PM

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if u call and he just calls, bb goes along, which then means u HAVE to minbet at some point in the hand...u CANNOT allow bb to see the river unraised and possibly win

so, if u wanna not fold, then u have to examine if it's better to minbet here or call here...if u call here, u do have that shot at hitting a set on the flop and u also save 200 chips over minbetting if he just reraises u pf (most likely)

so...i take it back...calling is better than minraising

so we have 3 options

a) fold

b) push

c) call (minbet at some street if not raised)

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Dude, you're really missing an important element here. BB is "sitting out" and he folds automatically except where folded to him. By you, BTN, entering the pot in any way, shape or form, he cannot see a flop and his 200 goes into the pot.

---unless he magically returns between the time you call and sb calls.

This is an important detail, because without it, you are way overvaluing BB's equity...

BB's equity is actually ~zero given certain assumptions that he does not return. Your equity is whatever it is, but is the one most prone to volitilty because of the setup. Therefore, even while BB has only .000000001 $equity, that fraction is SEVERELY hampering your equity.

(Edit to delete last sentence which makes no sense after reading it.)

SuitedSixes · #78 03-24-2006, 05:13 PM

I limp then call his all-in when he pushes over the top of me. That doesn't mean it's the right answer, it's just the answer that matches my personality and my mood. If someone has been running me over and I get an opportunity to trap him with 3rd or 4th best hand then I am going to take it.

If he beats me, than that's poker. At least the guy who was sitting out has a story to tell his friends.

Nicholasp27 · #79 03-24-2006, 05:16 PM

i understand that if EITHER you or sb enters the pot, that bb will fold and his 200 goes away...that's why i say the #1 most important issue in this hand is whether or not sb will enter the pot or fold to keep shorty alive

if u think sb enters 100% of the time, then isn't it better to fold here? if u think sb enters 0% of the time, then i agree it's better to call here...at some point in between 0 and 100, it switches from call to fold...so then it's a matter of where u think sb fits in that scale...i think u are giving too much credit to sb, but i may be wrong

(edit: this is a reply to pooh, not sixes)

Ditch Digger · #80 03-24-2006, 05:16 PM

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I limp then call his all-in when he pushes over the top of me. That doesn't mean it's the right answer, it's just the answer that matches my personality and my mood. If someone has been running me over and I get an opportunity to trap him with 3rd or 4th best hand then I am going to take it.

If he beats me, than that's poker. At least the guy who was sitting out has a story to tell his friends.

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Limp calling makes my stomach turn. I guess if you have a lot of gamble in you, like the guy that bet 5 grand that he can keep a 20% ROI at the 215's, it's ok.