Kicking Things Off

[twoakers]

For the record, there is legislation that forces police to make an arrest. The domestic violence laws in most states now require an officer to make an arrest, if a primary aggressor is identified. This takes away the discretion an officer has to handle each situation based upon the facts and circumstances available, and forces him/her to act based upon the legislation. This results in numerous bad arrests, and an escalation in penalties for people who, in certain situations, could have been dealt with in a much less intrusive, more convenient manner. I have no idea if this is also the case when dealing with gambling "violations," but I would not be surprised if it were the case in some jurisdictions.

[twoakers]

[ QUOTE ]
I would love to do something in conjunction with other recreational groups such as bowling associations to get amateurs to be able to deduct expenses from money received in competitions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi again Bob. Oddly enough, I happen to be fairly heavily involved in amateur bowling and have some info on this subject. I usually profit around $5-6k per year bowling each year, just bowling a few tourneys and leagues. I have only had to deduct expenses once, but it was as easy as sending a letter to the IRS explaining the situation, and the matter was dropped.

Although I live in Nevada, we have no card rooms within 100 miles, so there's no Texas Holdem, other than a home game here or there. I decided to try to set up a monthly Hold'em tourney in our local bowling center, basically running the poker tourney identical to the bowling tourneys in which I bowl. No rake, no profit to anyone other than the players who cash, and no payment to the host (bowling center). The owner of the bowling center was willing to go along with this, because he knew there would be a large amount of alcohol sold during the tourney. I contacted the State of Nevada Gaming Enforcement agency, and was told that bowling is not considered gambling, but Texas Holdem is. This meant that we could not hold the tourney's without having to obtain full gambling licenses, which are far too expensive to make this feasible.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but in Nevada, that's the reason we can bowl for money without all the legal hassles, but we can't play Hold'em with the same freedom. I don't know if this is helpful, but it's what I have dealt with. Good luck getting something going on this worthwhile endeavor.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, there is legislation that forces police to make an arrest. The domestic violence laws in most states now require an officer to make an arrest, if a primary aggressor is identified. This takes away the discretion an officer has to handle each situation based upon the facts and circumstances available, and forces him/her to act based upon the legislation. This results in numerous bad arrests, and an escalation in penalties for people who, in certain situations, could have been dealt with in a much less intrusive, more convenient manner. I have no idea if this is also the case when dealing with gambling "violations," but I would not be surprised if it were the case in some jurisdictions.

[/ QUOTE ]

My understanding was that there was such legislation in the state of Texas, its possible that this legislation exists in NJ as well, I really don't know but it wouldn't surprise me.

In NYC the recent busts were allegedly directed by the DA's office, not the police precincts themselves. So far each bust in Manhattan was coordinated by the Vice Squad... the same team that also raids NYC night clubs for dancing violations as well as underage drinking.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
You are far too pessimistic in thinking that nothing will be done via legislation in a whole generation. On the other hand, it would be unreasonable to think that EVERYTHING will be done in another century.

[/ QUOTE ]
I miss-posted. What I should have said was that it will probably take a couple years and maybe one or two lawsuits/trials before things start really turning for the better. This whole surge of internet poker/gambling is a new issue legally (hell the whole internet is legally just in its infancy)so it will take some time before people figure out how to deal with it appropriately.

I don't think that was much clearer...

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Bob:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
To raid a poker tournament and charge every entrant with a crime is as ridiculous as finding every Enron employee guilty because the company did something wrong in its accounting practices.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. You're making this argument because you feel in general that playing in a poker tournament should be legal. But there are many activities where all participants in addition to the organizer should be arrested. An example might be a crack house.

Now if you were to argue that given the popularity of poker that poker tournaments should be legal everywhere then I could buy into your argument.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Niediam]

Big difference between the two examples.

In Bob's scenario the participants have no clue that they are even breaking the law. I know ignorence is not an excuse but this isn't the type of crime where others are being hurt.

In Manson's scenario... well... they buying/selling/smoking crack. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Bob Ciaffone]

Of course, I would like playing poker in a tournament to be legal, but many states do not allow this activity. Mason compares playing in a poker tournament to being in a crackhouse. My point is breaking the law by going to a crackhouse is obvious to everyone in that house that the law is being violated. Going to a poker tournament is often an activity that the player believes is legal when it is not. (In fact, the organizer often thinks it is legal when it is not.)
You can get a good explanation of why we need player protection for poker tournaments and similar activities by going to the following link. This is a webpage of Chuck Humphrey, the poker player and lawyer who is likely the country's leading authority on poker laws.
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Artic...e-proposal.htm
Here you will also see some proposed legislation, a colaborative effort by Ckuck Humphrey and Bob Ciaffone, to remedy the problem.
Mr. Humphrey's website "US Gambling Law" is the best reference source for state and federal laws on poker and other gambling. That site's main URL is:
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/
I would like to publicly thank Chuck Humphrey for donating a lot of his time for the purpose of getting fair laws on poker.

[ChristinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
In Manson's scenario... well... they buying/selling/smoking crack. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a good thing that Manson is safely locked away in a California prison for life.

Oh sorry, I guess you meant to say "Mason" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't suppose they'd accept the old pro line: "it's all one long session"?

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]You don't have to pay til you die. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bob:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
To raid a poker tournament and charge every entrant with a crime is as ridiculous as finding every Enron employee guilty because the company did something wrong in its accounting practices.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. You're making this argument because you feel in general that playing in a poker tournament should be legal. But there are many activities where all participants in addition to the organizer should be arrested. An example might be a crack house.

Now if you were to argue that given the popularity of poker that poker tournaments should be legal everywhere then I could buy into your argument.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason, crack's pretty popular too.

--Dave.