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#31
02-24-2006, 11:15 AM
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Re: Tells
Tells are so personality dependent. We used to play a regular game at work and I found that tell 'generalities' were way off.
We had a player that would always stare at the board when he hit the flop solid. Same guy would also double check his cards when he hits just to make sure before betting (typically you see this with flush draws checking their suit not made hands). Most people tend to bet the perceived value of their hand in our game. Bottom pair bets the minimum and so forth... Some people get very chatty when they've made a good hand, others get dead silent. As for hiding my own tells? I just use them against people. I'm very self conscious, so I'm quite aware of what I'm doing and how I may be perceived, i then change my behavior accordingly if I think one of my oppenents has picked up on it. I was at one point betting in an aggressive physical manner on bluffs or draws (splashing the chips rather than placing) as soon as I noticed a guy picked up on it by playing back at me I waited for a good hand against him and caused him to play back at me. 
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#32
02-24-2006, 11:15 AM
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Re: Tells
[ QUOTE ]
tells, for the most part are overrated [/ QUOTE ] While this may be correct, I've seen picking up tells be a decisive difference, in live play especially. Caro himself even says that without tells, he'd lose half his profits (because he makes so many "exploratory bets"... that guy actually is crazy). I think this information is very useful, I have learned a few things from this thread that I will look for. As for my home games, they are of decent quality with a lot of money involved, and nobody is as bad as you mentioned (i.e. grabbing a cheat sheet to see what beats what). Reading body language I think will be pretty clutch for me in the future.
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#33
02-24-2006, 12:06 PM
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Re: Tells
baluga,
I didn't say they were worthless. I just think people vastly overrate their ability to spot a real tell. Most tells occur in less than a second when you are looking. I don't think the average ABC player loses much value by not spotting every potential tell. I have played hundred of hours in home games and casinos and I can count on one hand the number of times I made a decision soley on a tell with no other reads. Most of the it was the shaky hand/look at chips tell, which are almost impossible for novices to disguise/fake. In a home game with regular players, tells eventually become evident vs. 8 random donks in a casino.
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#34
02-24-2006, 12:33 PM
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Re: Tells
In an effort to mask mine, whenever I am in a hand I pick an arbitary spot and focus on that spot, usually the button or a chip in the dealers tray in a B&M, or a chip in the pot at a home game. I also try to think of something else, completely random, as to not give off information.
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#35
02-24-2006, 01:12 PM
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Re: Tells
Never played live poker (yet) - I was planning a trip to Gutshot in London this month - but can't afford to go right now [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] - it'll still be there in another month or so tho - so no worries...
Most of the people I have met tell me I have a great poker face - I tell them actually I have a great face for radio - but thats a different story [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I have always been very good at not giving away emotions and not reacting to stuff - I work in a busy kitchen for example - I am the only person I know there that can carry on having a conversation with someone without flinching or apparently noticing after an idiot waiter has dropped a tray of 50 glasses right behind me. When I first started playing online poker once the pot got to be significant or I was dealt a monster I got a huge adrenaline rush - shaky hands etc - and I'm sure until I get used to playing live the same will happen. Once I get comfortable playing live tho I'm hoping that I will be relatively tell free... Not read Caros book of tells yet - tho I definitely will get a copy before I do take the plunge live. I have also started watching lots more live poker on TV - and I think it's very interesting to watch some of the events - particularly those that feature internet qualifiers as generally the pros have the tell thing nailed down. I've been trying recently to read their hands based on betting patterns and physical tells - with varying degrees of success. Obviously you need to turn off the commentary (tho it's normally Jesse May rambling - who is always a pleasure to mute) and cover up the hole cards - I find this fun tho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#37
02-24-2006, 01:37 PM
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Re: Tells
[ QUOTE ]
One tell that I see a surprising amount with amateur players is when on a draw, you can literally see them nod their eyes or head in a counting manner, counting whether they have a straight. It happens enough to make it important to notice. Even just longer looks at draw heavy boards are tells. [/ QUOTE ] A few players at my home game table definitely do this. The problem is... did they hit...or are they still drawing? Other tells that seem to be consistent are: - how they put in their bet. a 'slam' on the table is usually a weak hand - TONE of the voice - not what they actually say. I've caught myself doing it too. A quiet call is usually a stronger hand.
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#38
02-24-2006, 06:29 PM
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Re: Tells
One of the tells I find to be omnipresent in my home game is telegraphs. I decided to tune in to telegraphs more recently and was amazed at how many there were and that from the best to the least player all showed them. They are most often seen preflop so it's not a huge edge, but if I can see that several players ahead of me intend to fold and a couple behind me, that changes my starting requirements and action.
This last session I sat to the right of the LAG in the group and he was very nice to telegraph most decisions he made before I acted so I could decide whether to tangle with him or not. The key is to match the tell with what the action and player's style is telling you. Tells alone don't get it done, but one in a while a small tell will make the action make sense in a way that lets you make a better decision.
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#39
03-06-2006, 08:43 PM
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Re: Tells
this spot is where my input will be of the most help...
Unless you are going to play with the same people each session I feel you are burning important brain cells that could be used later for more important things.. Say for instance you are in a large B&M tourny. 99.9% shure you will have never played with any of the players. and by the time you pick up on a tell ---ops--- you have been moved to another seat. and I really dont think that you and Joe shmoe will end up at the final table together and if by some chance you do his or her play will be totally different at this point in the game.. So My opinion is unless you sit at the same place all day and play with pretty much the same crowd and doin this for a living go with your gut and head and logic. save yourself the headaches as you already got enough to think about
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#40
03-22-2006, 04:13 PM
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Re: Tells
[ QUOTE ]
An "act" I've used in Vegas - The stumbling drunk. [/ QUOTE ] I almost cried when I read the part about pouring your beer down the toliet. I know you're trying to make more money, but good god man. Why don't you just sell your first born?
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