Female on Paxil, Things have changed

[Blarg]

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So...she knows that you really like her...but then she gets all weirded out by you putting your arm around her...and then gets passed around at a stripper party and feels the need to tell you all about it? This girl has issues.


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Agreed.

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I'm telling you right now, this girl is going to destroy you. You like her too much, and I don't think that she's *capable* of returning your feelings. From all that you've told us, she seems flaky and self-absorbed (which most 20 year girls are). You're setting yourself up for a fall.


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Very much agreed, except that I don't think he has to wait for the destruction to begin. It's happening now.

No guy should have to be the nutless placeholder for a girl who acts repelled by his advances half the time and is uninterested all the time, then goes out and makes out with strippers and jumped on by guys at parties.

By the way, what a motherlode strike of a b*tch! Telling him no, then telling him she wondered what would happen if he would "man up"? Acting cold when he so much as puts his arm around her? Refusing him but jumping on strangers?

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I still hope you bang her, though. Otherwise you'll be wondering for the rest of your life what it would have been like to screw her.


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I kind of do, but only to hump and dump her. Really, this chick is poison. God knows, the guy will probably have his balls in a bear trap if he ever gets access to her holy of holies and be a lifelong worshipper. With this girl, it sounds like he loses whether he gets her or not. Worst case scenario, she tolerates him enough to "let him" marry her or have a long-term relationship with her, and rules over his life for a long time as a very disinterested caretaker who probably screws everyone on the side she can get away with, and maybe some she can't. And he sticks with her no matter how she humiliates him because she has successfully crushed his self-respect down to nothing.

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And I have to reiterate the fact that I can't believe that she saw nothing wrong with telling you about the orgy she attended. She *has* to know that this sort of thing will hurt you, yet she does it anyway. She either likes the attention she gets by making you jealous, or she's just too self-absorbed to care that she's hurting your feelings.


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She's completely self-absorbed. She's also sexually competitive with him, of all things. He's not a guy in her sexual sphere, but placed firmly outside it, and she's showing him that she gets more than he does and is more sexually desirable than he is. Something she already believes all too strongly. That she could even be sexually competitive with him at all, "against him" as if he were a sexual enemy or on a different team than she is, shows that she doesn't really give a damn about his feelings and certainly not about his sexuality.

This thread makes me feel terrible for this guy. He's got to believe the world can provide him with more than this, even if this girl can't. And that if she can't, who cares? There are so many girls that will treat him better than this that it's insane and self-destructive to put himself through what this girl is going to drag him through.

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also i'm pretty sure i am falling way behind here, mostly because I cannot and will not be "drunk guy number 9 in 2 months". i just can't do that.

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Honestly, just go ahead and bang her. It won't make you like her any more than you already do, trust me. You couldn't possibly like her any more than you already do, so don't use that as an excuse to chicken out.

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Agreed again. The best thing this dude could do, besides getting the hell away from this chick entirely and forever, or banging some girl right in front of her, is to bang her. And he has no reason to worry about falling behind; he's already barely in the running and kept around mostly for amusement and as an emotional whore. The whole thing is getting so exhausting an demeaning to him that he's even starting to talk himself out of banging her in a way that makes his distaste for the whole sad, sexless and loveless business feel less clear.

What a leaden existence. OP, you deserve so much better, even if you hate yourself. And if you don't, it sounds like this girl is giving you the master's course in learning how to do so. God only knows what you'll be like and how you'll feel about yourself before she's done with you.

[Doc7]

Holy crap that's depressing

[Hopey]

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Holy crap that's depressing

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LOL...Blarg has a way with words, but he's a little dark sometimes, especially when it comes to the motives of women. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'll be a little more positive in saying that this girl obviously *does* think of you as her friend, which is why she is spending so much time with you. She's not "evil", she's just typical of most 20 year old girls -- she's just self-absorbed and clueless.

[Blarg]

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So....I'm pretty sure the girl very convinced that I have emotional strings attached with having sex with her. Is there a way (besides getting her completely and utterly blasted like may happen tonight anyway) to ease this concern?

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Treat her more and more like she deserves to be treated -- like someone who shows only minor sexual interest in you and is not actually all that cool. Right now you're treating her basically like a goddess without her having to do much to earn it, and despite her being frankly kind of creepy/b*tchy. (WTF about recoiling when you put your ARM AROUND HER? After all this time? Seriously seriously WTF what a ballbuster.)

You're showing her that she can get those emotional strings without making any effort, even while being a jerk and despite efforts to push you away. You've made your emotional, and testicle, submission to her plain.

You can give her the idea that you're not her emotional slave by not being one. Get a life! Outside her. If she calls you, don't always leap to the phone. Be too busy sometimes because she is NOT the only thing in your life. Right now she KNOWS she is. So she'll never think you are less than emotionally gaga over her. And she'll never feel like she has to do anything on her side to hold up the relationship, as you'll be happy to make enough effort for both of you.

Seriously, either make a major move with her or start making moves on your own life -- see other girls, be less available as her emotional whore, cut a few of her sentences off. As long as she feels she has no reason to chase you, she won't, but will lead you on the marathon of your life and maybe withhold the prize at the end anyway.

That just means not letting her decide 100% on the sex life for the both of you. The most she has control over is whether you two have sex, not whether you have sex. The most she can decide emotionally is your level of emotional fulfillment in that relationship, not in all relationships. She knows you think you can't get a better deal, and that's why you're being paid slave labor wages.

If your world is broader than her particular skanky heart and her oh so holy vagina, she will get a whole new picture of you, and a more complimentary and exciting one by far. If you show her that you fully intend to have a fun and exciting time with women, whether or not that woman has to be her, she is much more likely to want it to be her. Now she could hardly care less because she has no competition and you don't seem to be the kind of guy who either can or will change that. You'll return every phone call. You're not too busy or sometimes just interested in other things. You'll not only cuddle with her endlessly, but actually be scared of popping wood when you do. Jesus, you're a dead man to her.

She will seem much more lively when you get a life yourself. And if she doesn't, you won't care. The way to get what you want out of life is not to give up more and more chasing after less and less. The way to get what you want is to go after it without tying yourself up with unnecessary compromises that take you ever further from your goals. If you want a healthy relationship, don't settle for unhealthy ones; either stay out of them or change the ones you have. If you want a healthy sex life, make it clear that a relationship isn't a relationship without a sexual component, for you. This may mean leaving some nice girls behind, but that's okay; they will find their guy or their nunnery somewhere, and you don't owe them happiness any more than they owe it to you. Some people are just not right for each other.

For a 20 year old guy, a healthy sex life, and a lack of drama, is what's right for you. There's not a thing to be apologetic for there either. Nor demanding. If a girl is not willing to give you happiness without acres of drama and weirdness, move on, because you deserve better. If a girl finds you sexually uninteresting, find another. It's not the girl's fault if she doesn't find you a turn-on, and not your fault that you find women sexually attractive and think sex is a fun and healthy part of life that you want in your life and have no reason to think is something you should have to put aside or live without.

All this requires a level of self-respect and the ability to take a few losses along the line that it doesn't seem you have right now. You don't find success without risking loss, though. And when you're too scared to lose, you're too scared to win. It seems like you're scared to lose and will hold on at whatever cost, right now. You need to open up your life and respect yourself enough to put more at risk. Or, in other words, have some balls. She sees that inability to "man up" and taunts you with it repeatedly, then won't sleep with you. What clearer sign do you need when the object itself of your desire is telling you that you don't have the balls and then you meekly agree by refusing to bring them out of hiding? Can't you see how unattractive this makes you and how it ruins your chances?

WTF, she gets passed around at parties while you get sniffed at for putting your arm around her? You agonize for ages about whether to kiss her while strangers grind her and make out with her?

You have got to learn to value your own happiness and masculinity more. Because in this relationship, she is the man and you are the woman. And while some women may enjoy that level of control over a guy, it doesn't make him someone they want to f*ck. The woman's practically begging you to be a man, and definitely taunting you for not being one -- and still you won't be one?

For god sake, you need to be one with or without her, and if she wants to come along for the ride, fine; if she doesn't, fine too, because you're not ashamed of pursuing happiness, and she can either be on your side in that matter, or not. She should be cheering, not jeering. The person you are with is supposed to be on your side, not your competitor.

It's only when she starts seeing you as something positive she doesn't have rather than as a sexless wimp she is guaranteed and doesn't even have to work for or be particularly cool with -- only when she stops taking you for granted -- that you will be worth pursuing in her eyes. And yes, men can be pursued too, and should be; if the attraction is only one way, get the hell out. Everybody deserves to be wanted, EVEN YOU.

But it's hard for a woman to want a guy who doesn't act like a man. Not just this woman, but any woman. Think about it.

[Blarg]

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Holy crap that's depressing

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LOL...Blarg has a way with words, but he's a little dark sometimes, especially when it comes to the motives of women. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'll be a little more positive in saying that this girl obviously *does* think of you as her friend, which is why she is spending so much time with you. She's not "evil", she's just typical of most 20 year old girls -- she's just self-absorbed and clueless.

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Heh, well these threads tend to be about problems, not success stories. Nobody writes, "This girl is so great, I'm a confident and happy guy, and our relationship is perfect -- how can I change that?" or "Where did I go right?" I'll be one of the first in line to cheer someone's happiness or good fortune, but most of the sex and romance threads involve the opposite.

[Hopey]

Awesome post, Blarg. The most important thing that Doc needs to take away from it is this:

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It's only when she starts seeing you as something positive she doesn't have rather than as a sexless wimp she is guaranteed and doesn't even have to work for or be particularly cool with -- only when she stops taking you for granted -- that you will be worth pursuing in her eyes. And yes, men can be pursued too, and should be; if the attraction is only one way, get the hell out. Everybody deserves to be wanted, EVEN YOU.

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She considers him a friend, but she's taking him for granted and doesn't respect him. It's hard to get someone to change their opinion of you after a certain period of time, but this is what Doc will have to do if he wants to have a "normal" sexual relationship with this girl.

[Hopey]

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Heh, well these threads tend to be about problems, not success stories. Nobody writes, "This girl is so great, I'm a confident and happy guy, and our relationship is perfect -- how can I change that?" or "Where did I go right?" I'll be one of the first in line to cheer someone's happiness or good fortune, but most of the sex and romance threads involve the opposite.

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Very true. It's also true that most of the posters who create these relationship threads already know the answers to their questions -- they're just hoping that someone will convince them that they're wrong.

[Blarg]

Yeah, that's true, much advice asking is merely asking for confirmation. That's why it's actually dangerous to give romantic advice in real life, because if you say anything less than glowing about a girl a guy goes back to -- and they usually go back -- it can stick in his craw and ruin your friendship. And if a guy is foolish enough to go back to a girl who's treating him wrong, he might also be foolish enough to tell her what you said about her or their relationship, and then you've got the both of them with a grudge against you, reinforcing it and amplifying it together. I'm very careful in real life about saying negative things about a guy's girl, even if he's telling you he's so glad to be rid of her and wishes she would get hit by a bus, or wants your very most honest opinion on what he should do. Next week, YOU'RE the one he'll be wanting to strangle.

[shemp]

You sound like a nice young man. Seek help for codependency (among other things). Good luck.

[zephed]

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LOL.

Update, I was on spring break this past week hence no updates.

I visited her house over spring break. Got there at 9 AM, did stuff you don't want to hear about all day (mainly saw her town and shiyat), started drinking with her parents around 5 PM.

Watched jeopardy and wheel of fortune with her (as we usually do) and then because she had drank a little too much AND her parents encouragement (Except for the 2 times her mom called me by her low-life exboyfriends name by accident, her parents genuinely liked me), i took her out "for fresh air". first i had to call and let the parents know that due to alcohol/etc i was not going to be heading home till the next day, while on the phone she tackles me in her front yard. i'm feeling good. we ended up going down the street to the park and laying on the roof of a baseball dugout, till 24 started (she watches it, i watch it her mom watches it, so this wasn't 'lame'). On the way back to her house, she made a big show of making sure i avoided a mud puddle, and i kind of exagerrated falling over a little and got my arm around her side, ~3 seconds later she goes "Ummm.." which i took as my cue to drop the arm. dang.

we watch 24, and then afterwards go the half-mile to the shore..her mom gives her a blanket, lol, if i was cockier i'd say her parents were begging for me to screw her. However, at this point, we had discussed a few days earlier that right now the "ball is in her court".

the beach was cold thanks to the heavy winds, so we get back in her car and go back to that park, where its like 20 degrees warmer. we get back on the roof of the baseball dugout and lie there, occasionally really close to each other and occasionally not, for a good 2-3 hours. at one point she puts her head on my shoulder and is pretty much falling asleep.

we go back to her place, watch TV, and go to sleep. next morning i roll out.

she makes a comment about the dugout the next day, and i said something about it being her move, she says "WHAT! I have to initiaite things!" i said "um don't you remember the whole thing about your ex boyfriend and 'i need more time, let me make the next move if we go that direction'". i told her that things would have been much more interesting if she hadn't said that. she says "oh so you were scheming anyway!" and i didn't say anything for a few seconds and she says: "ok i schemed to....I was thinking about seeing what you would do if i told you you had to man up and [screw me] right then and there"

Weds, im in new york for an interview, she calls me to see how things are going when i am on the way home, and says she'll talk to me later. then falls off the face of the earth till 2 PM thursday. Turns out she got REALLY drunk weds night, made out with and light-petting a female stripper while wearing stripper clothes the professional provided to her [this was like an after-hours thing at some dudes house] AND got felt up by at least one [censored] and possibly one guy who she has described as nice.

at my obvious disappointment in these events occuring, she says:
"nice guys dont finish last, you're like someone i could marry, but im 20 years old and youre right, sometimes assholes are more fun in terms of those things at this age but id never want to marry any of them"


She is bringing her moms cooking up for dinner tonight, and I have stocked the fridge with store-bought mudslides and a bottle of ~$15 champagne (both her favorite drinks).

might not be a drinking night though because she drank a lot this week and isn't sure if she wants to. also i'm pretty sure i am falling way behind here, mostly because I cannot and will not be "drunk guy number 9 in 2 months". i just can't do that.

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I didn't bother reading this whole thing, I just know you didn't bang her. Someone kill me please.