First time tempted to fold KK preflop. - Page 3

kolotoure · #21 03-17-2006, 07:31 AM

This is one of the very few spots where I fold KK preflop. I just can't see what hands he makes this play with.

ChipStorm · #22 03-17-2006, 08:58 AM

I fold, and then I look for another table, because this guy is just taking up space; you'll never make any money off him.

That pfr number is just scary, so I have two questions:

With 1600 hands, rounding error now matters, so what's the full number? It just can't be 0.00%. Even if it's just 0.1%, that means he raised TWO hands in 1600. And if it's 0.4%, that pretty much means he raises his bullets and nothing else, since they come in about 0.45% of the time.

PT question: I had always assumed that a limp-reraise preflop would be counted for one's pfr%, but now I'm not so sure. If this guy always limp-reraises, rather than open raising, and if by some chance PT only counts an *open* raise for pfr%, then this guy may have successfully disguised his true preflop raising frequency.

I know what I would like PT to do in this regard. Does anyone know for sure what it actually does? Does a lrr count? If no one does know I'll ask PT support.

4_2_it · #23 03-17-2006, 09:31 AM

I can't believe I am typing this, but it looks like a fold. A 7/0 isn't raising anything but AA. His range is not wide at all, it is a single hand. This is the one exception in a thousand that we always mention in the "The Big Bad 50/30/3 LAG just 3-bet All-in, Should I Fold KK" threads that are more the norm.

I honestly can't say whether I would actually fold here (hell I probably call out of curiosity), but this would be the type of villain where I would have to think long and hard before calling.

DDC67 · #24 03-17-2006, 09:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold, and then I look for another table, because this guy is just taking up space; you'll never make any money off him.

That pfr number is just scary...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about folding here in this case with the information provided by OP. Against this particular villan, I think it is -EV to call his all-in. However, I would keep him around and steel his blnds every chance you get, at least until you got your $2.50 back. Also, you can shorten the table and not worry about this persons play. BTW, how long would it take you to get your $47 back from this guy?

Skuzzy · #25 03-17-2006, 10:46 AM

If this guy doesnt show AA then today is the day you wipe his stats from your datababse - cause he just read a book. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Thing is, with exactly 0 raises on record it means that he doesn't normally do this with AA. This guy is the very imbodiement of "risk averse". Maybe he figures that after 1600 hands with no raises there isn't a sane peron alive who will call when he pushes preflop.

No offence [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Isura · #26 03-17-2006, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe I am typing this, but it looks like a fold. A 7/0 isn't raising anything but AA. His range is not wide at all, it is a single hand. This is the one exception in a thousand that we always mention in the "The Big Bad 50/30/3 LAG just 3-bet All-in, Should I Fold KK" threads that are more the norm.

I honestly can't say whether I would actually fold here (hell I probably call out of curiosity), but this would be the type of villain where I would have to think long and hard before calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh. I folded KK for the first time preflop yesterday. It was at 1/2 though, and I had an obvious read. BTW, a short-stack raised, I reraised, and he instapushed. I was okay to fold because I got to see his hand anyways. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] He offcourse had AA.

jmillerdls · #27 03-17-2006, 04:20 PM

Ok, so it is now ok for me to fold KK preflop. Everything I have read on this forum made it so I would never do it...even when all evidence (and this is as much evidence as you could ever ask for) points to folding.

I won't do it often...heck, I may never do it again, but if this type of player does this to me again...I'll feel comfortable laying it down.

He did have AA of course...but I reloaded and made back about 3/5 of it on this table. This was actually one of my best days ever overall, and this was one of the few hands that cost me a lot...was just curious what others thought.

jmillerdls · #28 03-17-2006, 04:23 PM

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BTW how'd you get a * ?

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OOT...scary place.

so you think KK is foldable preflop then? I guess I missed where there was an exception to the rule, because I really wanted to fold this. At least I know for next time...although its not like you run into this situation everyday...week..month?

jmillerdls · #29 03-17-2006, 04:24 PM

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Then again, you wouldn´t have made this post unless you wanted to prove donks do this with AK-TT?

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That seems like the logic of many posts like this on here. I, however, did in fact run into exactly what the stats said I would run into. If this exact situation ever comes up...I'll definately remember it, and apply it.

jmillerdls · #30 03-17-2006, 04:27 PM

very interesting...and something I hadn't considered. Perhaps limp-re-raising is a very common move for him. Well that brings a whole new level of confusion. If he does lrr a majority of time that he plays his 7% of hands, then I would feel a lot more confident calling here...I think.