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#81
10-21-2007, 04:57 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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Even after recovery, sensation in that area is drastically reduced. Its too bad, because parents don't even know what they are doing to their children. [/ QUOTE ] Thats the idea, its a form of control. 
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#82
10-21-2007, 06:11 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But it seems like the only arguments for infant circumcision are paternalistic, and I'm not a big fan of paternalism. [/ QUOTE ] Weren't you arguing that "infanticide should be acceptable" (I assume you meant legal, not acceptable), that children have no rights and that they aren't people? If you don't care that the child is killed, what do you care if they are circumsized? [/ QUOTE ] I explained that in my post above. What part did you not understand? [/ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Talking about their right not to be murdered is a complete distortion of the issue and it is no wonder why it seems unacceptable to you, when you frame it that why. Instead of right not to be murdered, why don't you ask when they acquire the right to my food and shelter? It might sound heartless or whatever but at least that is a legitimate way of phrasing it.
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#83
10-21-2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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[ QUOTE ] I think a mother has the right to not be forced to care for a child not the right to agress against the child. In other words, I think a mother has the right to walk away from a child after birth, but not step on its head. [/ QUOTE ] So a mother can leave her kid in a dumpster to freeze to death? What's the difference? [/ QUOTE ] All the difference in the world?
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#84
10-21-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think a mother has the right to not be forced to care for a child not the right to agress against the child. In other words, I think a mother has the right to walk away from a child after birth, but not step on its head. [/ QUOTE ] So a mother can leave her kid in a dumpster to freeze to death? What's the difference? [/ QUOTE ] Well, placing the child in a dumpster could be viewed as an act of aggression. Obviously me saying that a person has the right to do something doesn't mean that I condone it. The difference is the difference between the statements "babies have the right to live" and "babies have the right to not be murdered". [/ QUOTE ] This makes a discussion about rights seem like pointless semantics. [/ QUOTE ] If a person is starving and I have food, that person does not have a right to my food. Similarly if he is just really hungry. This is very far from a semantical argument.
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#85
10-21-2007, 06:14 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Male circumcision most likely has positive (physical) side-effects. [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Net or at all? I think you can say it has no NET positive effects but the specific positive effects of preventing HIV transmission seem fairly solid to me. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen no evidence of this. Are we comparing heavily circumcised countries where condoms are also heavily used like the U.S. to countries that are mostly uncircumcised and condoms aren't used much like many African nations? [/ QUOTE ] The latter. But why can't I just assume my child will be stupid and irresponsible and not use condoms? If thats the case, then circumcision will lower his risk of contracting HIV.
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#86
10-21-2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think that infants have the right to not be murdered? When is the right gained? Birth seems to be a pretty clear cut line to me. [/ QUOTE ] Birth is only "clear cut" because it is convenient and indisputable. [/ QUOTE ] Property rights. Prior to birth the fetus is inside the woman's body and therefore is subject to her decisions. [/ QUOTE ] At best that just gives her the right to get it out. Since babies can survive early deliveries for many weeks before the actual event, how is aborting them during that time period where they could live without the mother any different from killing them after birth? [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. The mother has the right to remove the fetus at any point, but if there comes a point where it is EXACTLY as safe, comfortable, affordable and efficient to remove it in such a way that it will survive as to remove it in such a way that it will die, abortion seems completely immoral to me.
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#87
10-21-2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think a mother has the right to not be forced to care for a child not the right to agress against the child. In other words, I think a mother has the right to walk away from a child after birth, but not step on its head. [/ QUOTE ] So a mother can leave her kid in a dumpster to freeze to death? What's the difference? [/ QUOTE ] All the difference in the world? [/ QUOTE ] specifically...
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#90
10-21-2007, 06:43 PM
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Re: Should female circumcision be legal in the US?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think a mother has the right to not be forced to care for a child not the right to agress against the child. In other words, I think a mother has the right to walk away from a child after birth, but not step on its head. [/ QUOTE ] So a mother can leave her kid in a dumpster to freeze to death? What's the difference? [/ QUOTE ] All the difference in the world? [/ QUOTE ] specifically... [/ QUOTE ] Specifically the difference between killing someone and denying them the things they need to live. EDIT: Not actually denying, simply failing to provide.
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