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#151
10-02-2007, 07:51 PM
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Re: Hand from Borgata WPT
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The jist of it was said like 20 different times, btw [/ QUOTE ] That's not true at all. Lots of people said the obvious, that his line is consistent with meaning to raise, but no one said the converse, that his line is not consistent with wanting to call. [/ QUOTE ] Six in one and half a dozen in the other. 
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#152
10-02-2007, 07:54 PM
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Re: Hand from Borgata WPT
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The jist of it was said like 20 different times, btw [/ QUOTE ] That's not true at all. Lots of people said the obvious, that his line is consistent with meaning to raise, but no one said the converse, that his line is not consistent with wanting to call. [/ QUOTE ] Six in one and half a dozen in the other. [/ QUOTE ] They aren't even close to the same. There are often spots where ranges are polarized. Nuts or nothing. This hand is somewhat unique in that the nuts line makes sense, but the nothing line does not. Usually it's the opposite. People bluff without doing a good job of representing the nuts. This guy on the other hand is angle-shooting, without doing a good job of representing the accident.
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#155
10-02-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: Hand from Borgata WPT
I feel the bb has a monster, set of A's or K's. I think his head was spinning and wanted to raise initialy but after he threw in hid chips decided on a spur of the monment that this would drive out utg and he wanted some of his chips. I htink he would have made a 1/2 pot size bet on the river. i think he would have shown more unhappiness to the ruling if it was just a mistake of his on the bet, plus he seemed to really be pushing that he wanted to just call to keep utg and you in the hand.
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#156
10-02-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: The line I took
[ QUOTE ]
I decided to just call, and lead any river for 5k, folding to a shove. So the river was another ten, and I led for 5k like I planned. He instantly said all-in. [/ QUOTE ] You bet/call the turn and lead river, you got to have a hand or busted draw. I'd mini-raise you to 10K. Anyway, you should fold at the turn. (UTG had 15K chips in his hand may be the reason BB was OK with the ruling.)
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#157
10-02-2007, 08:25 PM
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Re: Hand from Borgata WPT
Justin,
A few people (mastr and chewy, and probably more) already said that explicitly. Every other competent player left it out of their posts because it's really obvious that AA/KK/TT are a big part of his range. The reason people didn't all jump on fold is because 1) AK is def in his range. 2) We have a set and folding sets sucks. 3) Everyone thought there was something interesting that they were missing.
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#158
10-02-2007, 08:38 PM
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Re: Hand from Borgata WPT
What tilts me the most on this hand is your description of the villain. If your read is true, this is not the MO of a straightforward, not rich, probably satellited beer drinking east coaster. These guys are playing as long as they can play for and enjoying their time. You specifically said your read was 'not tricky and straightforward', both of which I think make it really difficult to pull some fake raise with the immortal nuts. I think it would have been much more clumsy and would have been silent, i.e., not make a big deal of it where his reaction needs to be exposed to everyone at the table. Often times these sort of players overvalue pretty flops vs two limpers / callers even with a hand like AK. While I don't think it is impossible for him to have AA or KK here, the reads don't add up in my mind for the whole acting job.
While I hate reading the river action, as it seems like it must be the nuts, if I leave that out I would not deduce by your description of this guy that he would make this play. So, knowing the river, I think fold was right, but if I leave that out I don't think it is very clear and I don't think we can fold this turn. I also would check call the river. I don't really see what we've gained by the 5k lead. Maybe you can talk about this some, since I think it is interesting. -trplthrt
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#160
10-02-2007, 08:47 PM
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Re: Hand from Borgata WPT
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The jist of it was said like 20 different times, btw [/ QUOTE ] That's not true at all. Lots of people said the obvious, that his line is consistent with meaning to raise, but no one said the converse, that his line is not consistent with wanting to call. [/ QUOTE ] Six in one and half a dozen in the other. [/ QUOTE ] They aren't even close to the same. There are often spots where ranges are polarized. Nuts or nothing. This hand is somewhat unique in that the nuts line makes sense, but the nothing line does not. Usually it's the opposite. People bluff without doing a good job of representing the nuts. This guy on the other hand is angle-shooting, without doing a good job of representing the accident. [/ QUOTE ] oh, i see now.
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