The Fate of #756 by Marc Ecko

[RedBean]

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Prescribed steroids aren't illegal and never have been, so they've never been banned by baseball.


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Thanks. Finally. That's exactly my point.

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Are you claiming that Bonds roided up with prescribed steroids?

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Quick quiz:

Q. The burden of proof is on the ________.

A1. "accused."
A2. "accuser."


Considering that Bonds hasn't been afforded a chance to offer his side of story, I find it a bit reckless to assume that he is a cheater when you don't know whether or not he even violated the rule you are citing.

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You know I'm talking about illegally obtained steroids, just as you know that's what the memo bans. Why do you keep being deliberately obtuse?


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Can you prove Bonds used illegally obtained steroids?

If so, that would be a first, and I'd be interested in hearing about what you know. You may want to give the Federal DA's office in SF a call too, he'd kill to get his hands on some actual evidence.

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I love Aaron and hate Bonds because I am a racist, obviously.


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Holy Strawman.

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But if you'll cite the federal law prohibiting greenies in 1973 and produce Aaron's 1973 contract, I'll take a look at them.


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I can actually obtain these documents, but I don't come cheap.

If you agree to escrow 10 large pending the determination of amphetamine use being in violation of Aaron's player contract as it pertains to federal law on amphetamines, to be determined by a certified arbitrar, then we could have one hell of a prop bet here.

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I know you'll never give an inch, so there's really no point. I'm just disappointed that no one else sees through all your semantics. If I weren't a lawyer, I'd call them "lawyer tricks."

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Ok, let's step aside from the semantics.

Indisputable fact #1: Barry Bonds has never violated the MLB policy pertaining to steroid use.

Indisputable fact #2: Barry Bonds has hit 762 homeruns.

Everything else is speculation, conjecture, wishful thinking, hateful optimism, and reckless journalism.

[MyTurn2Raise]

speaking of strawmen


evidence necessary to convict in a criminal trial is nowhere close to preponderance of evidence or ability to think logically



Look at what Bonds has said
add up all the little things
look at his numbers
look at his pictures

hmmmmmmmmmm... there are quite alot of things I don't have 100% proof for, but it would be insane for me not to believe them




keep going there Cochran

[Triumph36]

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jesus...If I'm a participant in a forum that thinks Reb bean owns anyone, I'm in the wrong place

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yeah, pretty much

i don't agree with everything redbean says, but he's definitely got more facts and explains them better than anyone else

[DrewDevil]

Now you're shifting the argument again. Why O why do I do this?

Stay on point, we're talking about whether or not steroids were banned by the memo, not whether I can prove Bonds used steroids on a message board.

You said it was a "myth" that Fay Vincent's 1991 memo banned steroids in MLB. We have both now read the memo and I conclude that the memo clearly bans steroids (that are not prescribed) from MLB. Do you agree, or not? Do you retract your claim that it is a "myth" that the memo banned steroids?

More importantly, do the OTHER PEOPLE who have read the memo now realize that steroids were, in fact, banned by the memo, and that Redbean is a crazed semantical genius who is deliberately obscuring the truth?

CAN I GET A WITNESS??

[DrewDevil]

You want me to pay you to show Aaron was a cheater?

How about you pay me to show Bonds used roids??

Fun!!

[IrishHand]

Blech. Too much mindless debate. Claiming Bonds is innocent is like claiming OJ is innocent (and sadly, carries some of the misplaced and irrational racist claims).

Branding the ball is awesome. I've been a baseball fan all my life and think branding the ball with a massive asterisk is absolute quality!

[DrewDevil]

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Indisputable fact #1: Barry Bonds has never violated the MLB policy pertaining to steroid use.

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[Redbean Semantication]Actually, Bonds has never been caught violating the policy. He may have violated the policy 100 times and just managed to escape detection.[/Redbean Semantication]

SEE WHAT I DID THERE??!?!?!

[MyTurn2Raise]

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jesus...If I'm a participant in a forum that thinks Reb bean owns anyone, I'm in the wrong place

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yeah, pretty much

i don't agree with everything redbean says, but he's definitely got more facts and explains them better than anyone else

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for real?

or, are you just trolling me over the shortstack thing now?

[RedBean]

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Red Bean:Bonds :: Cochran:OJ

he casts small bits of doubts on the scores of information
he gets everyone focused on every little tree


DON'T FORGET THE FOREST


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In actuality, I'd rather focus on the relevant details, ie. facts, instead of the "forest" of reckless speculation, rumor, media spin, and uncorroborated assertions.

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I think he just has a mancrush and wants to deny everything and make counter-accusations

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Nah, I consistently go to bat for whoever it is, Ankiel, Bonds, Aaron, Pujols, Clemens, etc... and I don't pick and choose when I want to villify or overlook a person and be hypocritical....like those guys who were mitigating Ankiel's situation, despite their similar villification of Bonds.

Oh wait...you were one of them, weren't you? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[MyTurn2Raise]

nice change of topic again (a wrong one BTW)

can you ever stay on point?????????




Why do people think you can argue?


EDIT: for those that cannot follow along, here is what happened

RedBean glossed over the very huge facts I mentioned...you know the forest of things
-Bonds stats and their dramatic shift that don't line up with age development
-The comments of Bonds that relate to his personality
-the jealousy of the attention for McGwire/Bonds et al
-the pictures of his body development on a year-by-year basis
-the huge, huge gap in development of performance enhancing materials v testing methods
-Barry's precise weighing and measuring of every single thing he eats and uses, but whatever on the clear

instead, redbean accuses me of being a hypocrite and attacks hypocrites in general

very interesting

along with attacking reporters and diverting everyone to some minor point, it's one of his preferred methods of dealing with things


oh yeah, next comes the argument that our eyes don't know squat and we cannot judge based on that, which has a grain of truth until one looks at the Barry story and see he obviously focused much more on size around 1996 and then hit a plateau with that, but somehow found another gear a few years later into his mid 30s