A J offsuit leak

[S. L.]

raise preflop, raise flop - it is for value i think, there are three people in the pot, you dont think they all have straights allready? no; so, you have TPTK, raise while you have the best hand.
on the turn you can call.
on the river, call one, o/w fold UI.

as for your reasoning, i don't think you have 9 flush outs, because if you do, you probably still have the best hand (ps- i'm not sure if that's legit logic when counting outs) - unless ofcourse utg1 slowplayed a made straight on the flop (don't think so).

[Bulletproof Monk]

meh call the turn

i think i call/raise 40/60 preflop here, and i rarely raise this flop

over how big a sample are they losers?

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
Hoping not to be raised by the SB I am getting 5 to 1 to go for a 4 outer and maybe some discounted outs for the flush, say 3.5 out of the 9 flush outs? So 7.5 outs and I am getting 5 to 1 in a big pot with somewhat good implied outs.

Is my thinking somewhat solid?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it is, for this street. Given that your flush draw is a one-carder to the third nuts, giving it 3½ outs is generous considering any one of the five other players could have the K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in their hands, or may already have a made flush, which is bad because it lessens the amount of spades you can catch and increases the probability that you're drawing dead to it and can only win with a full house.

With that in mind, I also don't think your implied odds are "somewhat good." Yeah, if you boat up your implieds are enormous, but on the 42 other cards you're stuck. If you're behind you're probably paying off, and if you're ahead you're not going to be able to extract maximum value because the board is too scary. Of course, that's assuming you make it to the river for only the two bets you're putting in now. So I'd say your implied odds are neutral at best, leaning somewhat toward RIO.

This is why you raise the previous two streets. You probably had the best hand then and were getting money in with the best of it; furthermore, on the odd times something like this happens, the pot is bigger and you can more profitably draw.