More Bonds

[moayer]

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The next homestand starts Friday. I'll pick up two extra tickets so you and your strawman can come along. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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the dodgers come to town this weekend, if he doesn't want the tickets i'll go. i don't have a stawman though. will this be a problem?

[RedBean]

Snap, crackle, pop....762 and counting.

[FireStorm]

Although not directed at me, I'm actually well in agreement that Bonds would be in the top 10 of all time with or without ever touching PED. As for getting pwned in this thread, it continues to amaze me that a guy who worships Barry Bonds and defends/rationalizes his steroid use, and cherry-picks more than anyone I've ever seen, gets praised as some sort of brilliant baseball theorist.

[Mojo56]

Red Bean, there were no nefarious motives in my selecting age 35 as a comparison point in my last post. I used it as a starting point because you kept insisting I was 'cherry picking' years so I went with your 'over 35' mantra. I don't even know how it would have come out if I had used age 34.

Good points on Snider. I didn't realize how much he fell off after the move to LA. It was probably more of a factor in the divergence from the Bonds comp than Barry's 'surge'.

You point out Aaron never led the league in AB/HR until he was 37 but you didn't mention that he was in the top 10 10 times by age *33 (Bonds did it twice) or that Hammerin' Hank was 2nd 4 times (Bonds was NEVER as high as 2nd). Did you not post this because it doesn't help your case?

Your whole argument comes down to comparing AB/HR rates by age and then comparing it to the league average. Since Aaron and Bonds both increased at the same rate (as long as you cherry pick the years ) you say that what Barry did was 'normal' because Hank did it too. C'mon. Up until age 33 Aaron was in the top 10 in AB/HR 10 out of 11 years and was 2nd in the league 4x. Barry was top 10 twice (3rd and 8th). There is a difference. Hank was a consistent HR hitting machine his entire career. Emphasis on consistent. Barry was a great player who suddenly became a GREAT HR hitter. It could have been hard work, maple bats or something else. It makes no difference to me. What I can't see is how anyone can look at the career trajectory of both men and say "they look the same to me".

*age 33 picked to conform with original link. FWIW, Aaron was also in top ten at 34, 35 (2nd) and 36.

[vhawk01]

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Although not directed at me, I'm actually well in agreement that Bonds would be in the top 10 of all time with or without ever touching PED. As for getting pwned in this thread, it continues to amaze me that a guy who worships Barry Bonds and defends/rationalizes his steroid use, and cherry-picks more than anyone I've ever seen, gets praised as some sort of brilliant baseball theorist.

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LOL at you accusing him of cherry picking. He's only refuting YOUR arguments, and arguing on YOUR terms. Thats not cherry-picking, its called debating. The fact that you don't like it, and that you are apparently ignorant of the true implications of your own arguments (i.e. that Henry Aaron cannot possibly exist, Canseco obv never did steroids and Tony Gwynn obv did, things like that) just shows you've only gone about two steps down the chain of thought.

And RedBean isn't some great baseball theorist, he is someone with some passion and a critical mind. Its amazing what that combination can accomplish. Compare it to, say, someone who just has passion and the result is...well, I guess its this thread.

[FireStorm]

Agreed. If you take AB/HR out of the equation, RedBeans entire brilliant analysis comes apart *just a bit*. The two players certainly don't have a similar career trajectory simply because Aaron happened to have a small period of years at career end where his AB/HR increased. Aaron has a much higher level of consistency in the 35-44 HR range, never did he sharply increase to 73 while having a head that doubled in size, although I'm the only one on this forum who apparently realize this.

It's also rather idiotic to assess that Bonds and Aaron are both steroid users due to Aaron spitting out a greenie once while Bonds is a walking chemical factory.

[THAY3R]

This post really sums up your position really well.


Lol ignoranceretardedaments

[FireStorm]

In all honesty his passion and critical mind have led us to a detailed analysis of AB/HR ratios, a denial that Barry Bonds clearly visible body change is due to steroids, and the assertion that Barry didn't do steroids because Hank Aaron had above average HR seasons in 1971 and 1973. He also has been lucky enough to get a dim-witted set of Sporting Events Forum lurkers who find this all to be amazing. If this is what passion and critical mind equal, yikes.

[THAY3R]

DUDE LOL

[FireStorm]

I'm being told I'm retarded by one of a number of people who can't stipulate to body changes you can plainly see, and who agree with bizarre logic which draws comparisons between issues that have nothing to do with one another. Par for the course on 2p2.