The Mike Vick case... am I a life nit?

[NT!]

drew, he isn't being punished as if he tortured and murdered a human being, so wtf is your point? if he had electrocuted, drowned, hanged and mutilated a bunch of people, and forced them to fight for his own enjoyment and profit, he'd obviously be going away for life. a good chunk of the charges are related to interstate gambling and conspiracy, not animal torture.

[DrewDevil]

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Drew, When an intruder breaks in during the middle of the night and brutally rapes anyone, yes it is despicable and turns my stomach. That person should be put away for a long time. Is it worse than killing an innocent dog? Yes it is.

When I watch clips of dogfighting or listen to the details of the Vick case, my stomach also turns. Maybe I'm wrong, or its just me, but it seems to me that anyone capable of brutalizing animals is also capable of brutalizing humans. Its the coldheartedness and disregard for another living being that really bothers me.

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But Vick didn't brutalize a human--should he be punished as if he did? Of course not. We punish what a man did, not what he's capable of.

Of course it's bothersome, disgusting, etc. But it's still JUST A DOG.

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What sentence would you give Vick, if any?

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This is a tough question for me. My libertarian tendencies lead me to think the gov't shouldn't really be involved in breaking up dogfighting rings, but this is a pretty sick/inhumane sport, and it does bother me.

I don't know, something along the lines of the punishment for running an illegal casino--big fine, minimal (if any) jail time.

[DrewDevil]

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drew, he isn't being punished as if he tortured and murdered a human being, so wtf is your point? if he had electrocuted, drowned, hanged and mutilated a bunch of people, and forced them to fight for his own enjoyment and profit, he'd obviously be going away for life. a good chunk of the charges are related to interstate gambling and conspiracy, not animal torture.

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Have you read my other posts in this thread?

The point has always been that he's being punished much worse than wife-beaters/drunk drivers who kill people/assorted other scumbags, and I don't think that's right.

[esad]

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The point has always been that he's being punished much worse than wife-beaters/drunk drivers who kill people/assorted other scumbags, and I don't think that's right.

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I now see the fallacy in your arguments. You are pulling out specific cases and using those for some kind of benchmark , as if those sentences would apply in all cases.

- Most people who commit murder and are convicted receive life or many years in jail

- Most people who commit forcible rape receive many years in jails (Serial rapists have received life sentences)

- Most people convicted of running interstate gambling operations receive multiple years in jail

- Most people who are convicted of running dog fighting rings receive a year or so in jail.

Stop arguing along such idiotic lines of reasoning. You aren't making your case stronger.

[DrewDevil]

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The point has always been that he's being punished much worse than wife-beaters/drunk drivers who kill people/assorted other scumbags, and I don't think that's right.

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I now see the fallacy in your arguments. You are pulling out specific cases and using those for some kind of benchmark , as if those sentences would apply in all cases.

- Most people who commit murder and are convicted receive life or many years in jail

- Most people who commit forcible rape receive many years in jails (Serial rapists have received life sentences)

- Most people convicted of running interstate gambling operations receive multiple years in jail

- Most people who are convicted of running dog fighting rings receive a year or so in jail.

Stop arguing along such idiotic lines of reasoning. You aren't making your case stronger.

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Most people who commit domestic violence do not serve any time on the first offense. This is my main point of contention.

Edit: aren't you the guy who was going to wear a wedding ring to a job interview so that you'd have a better chance of getting hired? And you're calling me an idiot?

[Anacardo]

You know what's annoying as [censored]? People who talk about formal logic, rather than just, like, applying it.

[NT!]

this isn't just a beating up dogs vs. beating up women thing, drew. it's a long-term, well-documented organized crime venture involving torture, mutilation and brutality for sport. give it up.

[Assani Fisher]

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I think this whole thing is ridiculous.

Ray Lewis was involved in the murder of a HUMAN... the press, NFL, and general public got over it in about 12 months...

I honestly believe Vic will never play in the NFL again and I find it kind of ironic that Ray Lewis will be starting this season.

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I'm a Ravens fan, so take this FWIW, but with that said I know a lot about the situation....

The case against Ray Lewis was dropped before it even went to court because the prosecutors had such a lack of evidence. Do you realize how little evidence they must have for that to happen? Contrast that to the Vick case in which they had so much evidence that the defendant plea bargained.


Essentially this is what Ray Lewis did: He went to the Super Bowl with some friends. His friends killed a guy. He knew about it. The police questioned him, and in the heat of the moment he wasn't sure whether to tell the truth or to protect his friends so he basically said "no comment." A day or two later, he realized that this was wrong and he went and told the police the truth. Thats why he was charged with "obstruction of justice."

He has since gone to many rookie training camps and spoke to incoming rookies about the importance of watching the people you hang out with and making good decisions. He has also done a number of charitable things in the Baltimore community. Furthermore, hes been known as a fabulous team leader. Again contrast that to Vick who has a history of questionable behavior.


I do agree with you that taking the life of a human is obviously much more serious than taking a dog's life. But by all accounts, Vick was directly involved while Lewis was VERY MUCH indirectly involved.

[DrewDevil]

Are you the kind of mod who argues in a thread and then bans people who disagree with him?

It's a torturing/killing dogs vs. beating up women thing, then.

If first-time woman beaters don't usually get jail time, then neither should Vick, because beating up women = worse than killing dogs. IMO.

And WTF at people saying you can't compare the two... that's exactly how punishments and sentencing are determined!! Is this crime worse than x crime? That's how it's done, for cripes' sake.

[tuq]

DD,

After viewing this thread and the Bonds thread, I think you have a serious case of Last Word-itis. NTTAWWT per se, but you really do dig into your debates, wow.