****OFFICIAL BONDS USED STEROIDS THREAD*********

[Josh W]

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I'm not excusing what Bonds did or anything, but let's be honest here, Bonds is nowhere near unique in the history of baseball. Players have been cheating and lying as long as the game has been around.

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Sure, but there were only a handful that were eligible to be both:

A) At the top echelon of the baseball pantheon
B) Accessible to non-legal performance-enhancing methods.

Do people keep forgetting that Bonds is on the verge of passing BABE RUTH for 2nd on the all-time HR list? That is the difference between him and...Alex Sanchez.

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Willie Mays, Joe Dimaggio, Mickey Mantle, etc, etc, all took Amphetamines. These are definitely "non-legal performances-enhancing methods," and baseball agrees as they recently started testing for them...

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I would argue that many today are still taking amphetamines (somebody recently said that upwards of 90% of current players are taking them). Bonds went above and beyond that.

It's like saying Person A shouldn't get a speeding ticket for going 120 in a 55mph zone cuz "lots of people go 65".

Josh

[J.R.]

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"Anyone with half a brain could see the freakish changes that his body had undergone, and the only explanation HAD to be steroids"

I'm really sad this is turning out to be true, because the argument above sucks, and I hate that people who used it will feel validated

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In general yes, but with regard to a 33 year, world class athlete already in exceptional shape? Sure it is not an infallible argument but you don't grow like a weed when you're 33, even if you haven't trained. why the hate?

[billyjex]

i still [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] barry

[Jack of Arcades]

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I'm not excusing what Bonds did or anything, but let's be honest here, Bonds is nowhere near unique in the history of baseball. Players have been cheating and lying as long as the game has been around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but there were only a handful that were eligible to be both:

A) At the top echelon of the baseball pantheon
B) Accessible to non-legal performance-enhancing methods.

Do people keep forgetting that Bonds is on the verge of passing BABE RUTH for 2nd on the all-time HR list? That is the difference between him and...Alex Sanchez.

[/ QUOTE ]

Willie Mays, Joe Dimaggio, Mickey Mantle, etc, etc, all took Amphetamines. These are definitely "non-legal performances-enhancing methods," and baseball agrees as they recently started testing for them...

[/ QUOTE ]

I would argue that many today are still taking amphetamines (somebody recently said that upwards of 90% of current players are taking them). Bonds went above and beyond that.

It's like saying Person A shouldn't get a speeding ticket for going 120 in a 55mph zone cuz "lots of people go 65".

Josh

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To use your anaology, people are saying speeding is a recent phenomenon, villifying the recent drivers, and canonizing everyone that drove before them.

I'm in no way condoning this, but trying to put this into perspective. If steroids were available to this magnitude fifty years ago, we'd have had the same problem with them with some of the most famous names in history.

[NoChance]

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i still [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] barry

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[Hopey]

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I'm not excusing what Bonds did or anything, but let's be honest here, Bonds is nowhere near unique in the history of baseball. Players have been cheating and lying as long as the game has been around.

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True. And when players have gotten caught cheating / breaking the rules in the past they've gotten punished for it. The more severe the transgression, the more severe the punishment (see Pete Rose). In my mind, Bonds' transgression was extremely severe, and I hope they nail him to the cross for it.

[Jack of Arcades]

Barry Bonds and Pete Rose have nothing to do with each other...

[tdarko]

canis,

he isn't condoning it, he isn't simply saying that if you are going to vilify bonds then you have to vilify the game in general and that is tough to do. he is saying that this is about a bigger problem, not barry bonds. if mays, dimaggio, mantle and others were around today the chances of them using performance enhancing drugs would be very high, cheating in baseball to gain that edge has been around since the game started whether it has been touching up stats in the ledger books to sharpening spikes to raising the seams on the ball to amphetamines (still used today) to steroids to hundreds of other ways the game has been cheated.

is bonds a hero or good person? no. but is this really about him? the answer is also, no. Jack is right about this.

[Jack of Arcades]

ty tdarko.

This is a problem with mlb, athletics, society, and our current drug laws.

this is an nfl problem too, but nobody cares.

[J.R.]

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I'm not excusing what Bonds did or anything, but let's be honest here, Bonds is nowhere near unique in the history of baseball. Players have been cheating and lying as long as the game has been around.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. And when players have gotten caught cheating / breaking the rules in the past they've gotten punished for it. The more severe the transgression, the more severe the punishment (see Pete Rose). In my mind, Bonds' transgression was extremely severe, and I hope they nail him to the cross for it.

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what rule did bonds break? Previous to the recent agreement, steriods weren't treated any differently than other controlled substances by baseball. Bonds could have been punished for breaking the law, as lamar hoyt was, but he wasn't arrested, and unlike gooden or strawberry, he never tested positive for an illegal substance. And even if he were caught with steroids under the prior regime, the precedent doesn't support much more than a suspension, probably maxed at 60 games and likely far less than that.