4/180 Early Edge Push

[All_In_Olly]

One area of my game I've been trying to improve is identifying edges early on in the 4/180s.
In the past I've definitely been too conservative, and doubling up early was a rarity for me, but now I'm stacking opponents when I'm ahead much more often.

I'm worried this edge pushing may lead me to being too loose aggressive.
With that in mind, is reraising All In ok here?
Is a flat call an option given remaining stack size?

CO is a maniac, his stats are 70/50/7 over 20 hands and his range much be huge.
BB is an unknown to me as he was moved here last hand and folded pre flop.
His call worried me somewhat, but then again he has a big stack, and I'm still only on level II where an average player is poor.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP1 (t3420)
MP2 (t2935)
MP3 (t1365)
CO (t490)
Button (t1270)
SB (t1555)
BB (t4395)
Hero (t1309)
UTG+1 (t2685)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t490</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls t460, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ?

[levAA]

cause of your 1st call BB can be pretty sure that you don't have a big PP or a big A.
so i would put you on a medium to small PP or some kind of a drawing hand or maybe Ax (x&lt;J).
So if BB is a thight player (which we have to assume as blinds are low and most people play tight) i would put him on 88+,AJs+,AQ+,KQs. With that range i don't think you get much FE if you shove it in here.
I'd just call it and check it down.

[LMAO]

hero folds.

[plzleenowhammy]

fold initially? .. re-fold after all this other stuff.

[wulfpacker21]

i took one glance at it and its an easy fold

[Coz]

I would probably fold this hand, your chip stack is still good, and I think you are behind too often in a situation like this to gamble. I have noticed people love overbetting big hands, so AA and KK are very good probablilities. Calling is out of the question because you are folding unless an 8 hits. Olly, what I have been doing latley to pick up my aggression at the table is employing a raise or fold strategy, so unless I am getting 4-1 or better on my money I never call. Me UTG with 88 I would raise, of course depending on table dynamics but it is improving my game because putting such constant pressure on your opponents does wonders for your game.

[Lord_Strife]

I think limping in EP is marginal but I don't hate it but I really dont like this hand in a three way pot because it's impossible to figure out where we are in the hand without flopping a set or having all of our chips in already.

[SuperUberBob]

At a loose, passive table, you can get away with this. However, you have to fold to a raise.

As a matter of fact, I fold 88 here most of the time preflop. Way, way out of position to play it.

[All_In_Olly]

levAA why would you assume BB is a tight player?

Its a 4/180 at level II - isn't an average player at this stage quite poor and so has a wider range than the one you've described?

If I shove I don't think I've got any fold equity because of stack sizes, the only reason I would shove is if I think the 2 ranges are wide enough to make it +EV.

[All_In_Olly]

Coz, I agree that limping drawing hands UTG is generally a bad idea as any action behind me means I have to fold.
However this early in a 4/180 I think 88 is often good enough to go AI with. What I disagree with is saying the original raiser has a good chance of holding AA/KK - look at his stats. I'm only worried about the caller.

Later in the tourney I would be more aggressive and raise a wider range, but don't see the point here, with blinds so low and play so loose.

There was a post a couple of months back in which a well regarded 2p2er said an AI overbet pre flop should be called by hero's mid pair early in a 4/180.

This situation is different and more marginal, but the idea still holds - if the ranges are wide enough for the villain(s) then a mid pair may be good enough.