Simple hand vs Robert Williamson, WSOP ME day 1.

[Yuv]

The hand might not be very interesting, but my poor play to RWIII play, made me think there's something interesting here. I apologize if it's highly standard to the rest or rather simple.

Day 1, 2nd level. Robert Williamson came in two hours late, played a lot of hands since, but very passive. Limped or called all of 'em preflop, didn't do much post flop. He's probably down to 17k at this point. I have about 32k.

Blinds 100-200.

Folded to RW on the button, and he limps. SB completes. I look down at AKo and raise to 850. RW calls, sb folds.

Flop A39r
(Not 100% about the other two cards, but they were low and not connected).

I bet 1200, RW rather quickly raises to 3000. I call, not really sure what to make of that raise. First time he raised pf or on the flop.
How many 3-bet here?

Turn bricks. Something like A936. I check, he checks.
Anyone leads out?

Turn bricks. Something like A9368 no flush.
Who leads here? How much?
I check. He checks and mucks a weaker ace.

Obviously I played it bad and should have led out on the river. But, it did get me thinking about freezing your opponent with a marginal holdings. Something easily done in LHE, but seems like people often c/c or b/f with showdown value hands, but hardly raise early streets to get to a cheaper showdown.

I was hoping to get some insight from better players than me about how mundane this play is for them. I thought out of all RW plays (he played terrible), this was an interesting one, if he indeed intended to go to a cheap showdown by raising the flop.

[Praetor]

i like the line until river where i value bet

i would fold to a strong turn bet

i dont know who villain is, this is just in general

[bruce]

This hand illustrates the value of position, esp. against a
name player. If you lead on the turn or river, then what is your plan if you are raised?

Bruce

[Bond18]

I bet the river probably intending to fold to a raise.

Also, his flop raise is really bad.

[Todd Terry]

I would 3bet the flop most of the time since I'm OOP, but calling given that he raised post-flop for the first time is OK. Once you call the flop, you should check the turn. After he checks behind on the turn, I'd probably bet the river, his line really looks like a weaker non-paired ace at this point. In my experience, raising the flop with a paired Ace and crap kicker is a very standard play. It is designed more to find out where you are rather than freeze your opponent.

Don't sweat not betting the river. Had you done so, he probably would have said "Check" and quickly turned over his cards.

[Bond18]

How is raising the flop with a weak ace standard here? Worse hand never calls, better hand never folds and you bloat the pot with a hand that doesn't play well in a large pot at all.

[Todd Terry]

[ QUOTE ]
How is raising the flop with a weak ace standard here? Worse hand never calls, better hand never folds and you bloat the pot with a hand that doesn't play well in a large pot at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

My definition of "standard" is frequently done, which in my experience this is. I took no position on whether it was optimal.

I happen to think it is optimal because of the currently out of vogue find out where you stand and put pressure on your opponents rationales that also support the currently somewhat out of vogue continuation bet, but find some merit in the counterarguments advanced by Daniel Negreanu, David Sklansky, and to a lesser degree Chris Ferguson.

In this particular hand, what do you do after calling on the flop when OP bets the turn and river?

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

How is raising the flop with a weak ace standard here? Worse hand never calls, better hand never folds and you bloat the pot with a hand that doesn't play well in a large pot at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it did buy him the turn and river for very little and he got to show down his TPWK. If he called all the way Yuv is gonna get more.

I'm not saying its 100% correct, but he found out for the least amount if he A was good. After Yuv called the flop raise, he probably mucks to a river bet.......maybe.

Regards,
Woodguy

I spoke to Yuv about this hand, my problem with RWIII's flop raise (aside from the obvious points Bond made) are this: You only buy yourself a cheap showdown when you happen to be playing against a deep-thinking, good player who might get gunshy on the river. In other words, he happened to by himself a cheap showdown in this specific hand, but I don't think on average he will accomplish this. It's no better than calling the flop, call/folding the turn, and folding the river.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, he happened to by himself a cheap showdown in this specific hand, but I don't think on average he will accomplish this. It's no better than calling the flop, call/folding the turn, and folding the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

After Yuv calls the almost-min-raise RWIII probably isn't putting another dime in the pot because he can't put Yuv (calling the flop raise OOP and raising OOP PF) on something he beats, and he only did it for an extra 1800 over the lead.

Any other line doesn't give him as strong a read on Yuv or cost as little.

God help me, but its a reasonable <font color="red"> BET FOR INFORMATION </font> [/puke]