Can someone explain Mormon to me?

[threeonefour]

Follow i am from south central Idaho, i don't think the church is as regional as you think it is. i have been to many services. including MANY in utah, my old sister and brother both went to BYU and currently live in Utah, i also have an aunt and uncle who have lived in Utah for the past 12 years, both of my grandparents from my maternal side were born and raised in Utah, my mother lived in Utah for several years, i have been to several general conferences in Utah, trust me, southern idaho (i was like 4 hours from Salt Lake) is no different than utah. i mean salt lake is a bit different just by virtue of the place being so urban relative to southern idaho but thats about it. and there really isn't much of a cultural difference.

i even have a couple of relatives who came to Utah with the handcart companies that first made the trek to settle the salt lake area.

my father was a convert, though there are LDS patches throughout his family tree, and there are some non LDS patches on my maternal side as well, but for the most part i am about as entrenched as they come.

[Follow]

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my family has the food storage

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Just a funny story from when I was helping a Mormon family move once back in the day. They had a ton of wheat (not under a ton, exactly 1 ton) which we had to move from one house to another. In the process of the move, I asked him what the wheat was for. He explained to me that the wheat is for the final days, so that he can take care of his family, in case of a large scale disaster. I was a little puzzled by his answer and asked what he planned to do about water, since wheat without water doesn't do much good. His answer was simply, "God will provide."

So I asked him why God wouldn't provide the wheat too...




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Follow]

[ QUOTE ]
Follow i am from south central Idaho, i don't think the church is as regional as you think it is. i have been to many services. including MANY in utah, my old sister and brother both went to BYU and currently live in Utah, i also have an aunt and uncle who have lived in Utah for the past 12 years, both of my grandparents from my maternal side were born and raised in Utah, my mother lived in Utah for several years, i have been to several general conferences in Utah, trust me, southern idaho (i was like 4 hours from Salt Lake) is no different than utah. i mean salt lake is a bit different just by virtue of the place being so urban relative to southern idaho but thats about it. and there really isn't much of a cultural difference.

i even have a couple of relatives who came to Utah with the handcart companies that first made the trek to settle the salt lake area.

my father was a convert, though there are LDS patches throughout his family tree, and there are some non LDS patches on my maternal side as well, but for the most part i am about as entrenched as they come.



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Idaho was on my list, especially Southern. How is it that you weren't around many Mormons growing up if you were in Southern Idaho?




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Follow i am from south central Idaho, i don't think the church is as regional as you think it is. i have been to many services. including MANY in utah, my old sister and brother both went to BYU and currently live in Utah, i also have an aunt and uncle who have lived in Utah for the past 12 years, both of my grandparents from my maternal side were born and raised in Utah, my mother lived in Utah for several years, i have been to several general conferences in Utah, trust me, southern idaho (i was like 4 hours from Salt Lake) is no different than utah. i mean salt lake is a bit different just by virtue of the place being so urban relative to southern idaho but thats about it. and there really isn't much of a cultural difference.

i even have a couple of relatives who came to Utah with the handcart companies that first made the trek to settle the salt lake area.

my father was a convert, though there are LDS patches throughout his family tree, and there are some non LDS patches on my maternal side as well, but for the most part i am about as entrenched as they come.



[/ QUOTE ]

Idaho was on my list, especially Southern. How is it that you weren't around many Mormons growing up if you were in Southern Idaho?




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]I knew virtually every mormon kid in town but wasn't good friends with any mormons until my senior year of high school. i was always kind of the black sheep. i was accepted by the mormons, but didn't really hang out with them. sometimes i would get invited to mormon parties though, but usually because its the polite thing to do when they are already inviting my older brother.


i was kind of the "worldly" bishop's son, the one that you might have to worry a bit about. at least thats my perception of where i fit in.

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my family has the food storage

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a funny story from when I was helping a Mormon family move once back in the day. They had a ton of wheat (not under a ton, exactly 1 ton) which we had to move from one house to another. In the process of the move, I asked him what the wheat was for. He explained to me that the wheat is for the final days, so that he can take care of his family, in case of a large scale disaster. I was a little puzzled by his answer and asked what he planned to do about water, since wheat without water doesn't do much good. His answer was simply, "God will provide."

So I asked him why God wouldn't provide the wheat too...




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ] Weak. 1 ton of wheat is pretty respectable. my family probably never had more than 2-3 hundred. though we had TONS of canned food, sugar, and other standard groceries (ketchup, pickles, BBQ sauce etc). we definitely had water (at least most of the time i think) but probably not enough to not run out well before the food did. zero water though and rationalizing that its ok, come on, bad mormoning imo.

we also had first aid kits and 72-hour kits (kits than basically have everything you need to survive for 72 hours if caught in some minor tragedy) coming out our ears. i remember making one for family home evening and having it in my room for like 10 years.

independence and preparedness are big mormon virtues. its actually pretty smart and practical.

[threeonefour]

Actually i just thought of an interesting anecdote that really illustrates the negatives of being mormon.


Being a 12-18 year old mormon boy:

first, you must realize that unless your ward is very very large, virtually every boy in the 12 to 18 year old range plays a role in administering the sacrament (communion to you catholics). basically every boy 12-18 has some role similar to what i imagine altar boys doing. if you are 12-14 you hand out the sacrament, if you are 14-16 you may either hand out the sacrament or hold the doors while the sacrament is being administered. 16-18 you actually prepare and bless the sacrament.

Alright, so every boy is doing this every week but here's the catch, you are supposed to be WORTHY (ie not engaging in too many sinful activities) in order to do it. this is all very public, so a kid can't really not contribute week after week and not raise some eyebrows. so you are kind of caught between a rock in a hard place.

to illustrate how troubling this is, in order to be worthy, a kid shouldn't do things like MASTURBATE. are you [censored] kidding me? 12-18 year olds are expected to not masturbate week after week or else face public ridicule? how is that even humanly possible?

oh and it gets worse, i remember vividly being taught the story of the man who attempted to balance the ark of the covenant because he thought (or perhaps just wished) that it was going to fall over. the man was struck dead by god because the man was command never to touch the ark because he was unworthy.

i remember be told specifically that in the eyes of god it is similarly damning to serve the sacrament while being unworthy to serve it (or taking part in any other activity that requires you to be worthy for that matter, like going to the temple, or giving a blessing through the power of the preisthood).


talk about giving a kid a guilt complex. if you masturbate, you won't be worthy, if you aren't worthy you can not do your duties, if you don't do your duties EVERYONE will know something is up. oh and you can forgot about going to heaven while you are at it.

I haven't gone 24 hrs without masturbating since i was pre-pubescent (with a few extreme exceptions), i was pretty much doomed from day one.

in popular media i always hear about the "catholic guilt complex" or jewish guilt or a "typical guilty jewish mother". the jews and the catholics have NOTHING on the mormons imo. when you confess to your bishop, you do it face to face not behind some screen, and you don't just say some hail mary's and be done with it. you have to give up taking the sacrament for a period, while still going to church every week, which is a pretty public thing to do.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
to illustrate how troubling this is, in order to be worthy, a kid shouldn't do things like MASTURBATE. are you [censored] kidding me? 12-18 year olds are expected to not masturbate week after week or else face public ridicule? how is that even humanly possible?


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It is humanly possible not to masturbate. My brother is ill and in chronic pain from taking this crap seriously. He was told by one bishop after another to ignore doctors orders and to not masturbate. Finally, at the age of 40, he found a Stake President, who is a doctor, who gave him written orders to masturbate and told him if any bishop gave him a hard time, to take it up with him. However, it’s too little too late. My brother has chronic prostatitis, that doctors think lack of masturbation is a likely cause ( simply because frequent masturbation or sexual intercourse drains the prostate and assists in clearing any infection; antibiotics alone, evidently isn’t enough). At this late stage, the infection is so severe that masturbation only relieves some of the pain and antibiotic treatments so far have not worked.

[threeonefour]

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[ QUOTE ]
to illustrate how troubling this is, in order to be worthy, a kid shouldn't do things like MASTURBATE. are you [censored] kidding me? 12-18 year olds are expected to not masturbate week after week or else face public ridicule? how is that even humanly possible?


[/ QUOTE ]

It is humanly possible not to masturbate. My brother is ill and in chronic pain from taking this crap seriously. He was told by one bishop after another to ignore doctors orders and to not masturbate. Finally, at the age of 40, he found a Stake President, who is a doctor, who gave him written orders to masturbate and told him if any bishop gave him a hard time, to take it up with him. However, it’s too little too late. My brother has chronic prostatitis, that doctors think lack of masturbation is a likely cause ( simply because frequent masturbation or sexual intercourse drains the prostate and assists in clearing any infection; antibiotics alone, evidently isn’t enough). At this late stage, the infection is so severe that masturbation only relieves some of the pain and antibiotic treatments so far have not worked.

[/ QUOTE ] am i being leveled or is this legit? if so, i wish your brother the best, sounds like a pretty rough thing to be going through. its good that he eventually found a good stake president, all those guys are human yet so many people depend on them for superhuman wisdom which can be a recipe for disaster. i understand it is humanly possible to not masturbate, but seriously how many guys could honestly pull it off? how many guys age 15? i am not sure if you offered me a million dollars (or even eternal happiness in the afterlife) to live up to the sexual standards of the LDS church for one year if i could do it. i certainly couldn't keep the constant impure thoughts out of my head.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
am i being leveled or is this legit? if so, i wish your brother the best, sounds like a pretty rough thing to be going through. i understand it is humanly possible to not masturbate, but seriously how many guys could honestly pull it off? how many guys age 15? i am not sure if you offered me million dollars (or even eternal happiness in the afterlife) to live up to the sexual standards of the LDS church for one year if i could do it. i certainly couldn't keep the constant impure thoughts out of my head.



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I’ve actually brought this point up before on this forum. I’m not leveling anyone here. This is my number one gripe against any religion. If you preach this garbage, somebody is going to take it seriously, and there will be harmful consequences. I suppose most ministers don’t think twice about preaching against things like the evils of masturbation, because the vast, vast majority of people just ignore such trash.

[threeonefour]

yukon i remember you posting that you are ex mormon in the past but i didn't catch that story. pretty sad stuff. mormonism is certainly one of the most demanding Christian ideologies. i hear that most churches don't get anywhere near the same amount of money per devout member as the mormons. the leaders say they want 10%, and 10 is what they get. they say give two years of your life to go convert people, and the vast majority of guys go and serve missions. they say no sex before marriage and amazingly it seems many many mormons are able to hold out. the level of devotion is pretty wild.