Playing Ax Suited at a LAG Live 3/6 Table...

[Frond]

Kit's reply was spot.

Hey Coach, a lot of players here(me included) have had 25 to 100+++BB swings so it might seem like a lot for 3 hours but it really isn't that much. Just hang in there

With the smaller suited connectors it is normally good to try and get in cheaply if you can. If your your small-medium suited connectors miss the flop as far as any str8 or flush goes, they have a tough time holding up when you pair just one of your 2 cards. Then you may become tied to the pot with a marg holding. When you have a strong higher suited connector like say QKs and you pair one of your cards it becomes a much stronger hand when you miss your flush and str8 draws. I do know of some players who will cold call 3 bets with a hand like 34s at a wild table but I don't care for this at all. As far as pairs go, still try and get in as cheap as possible with small-med pairs & suited Aces OOP if you can. Just make sure your post flop play is as solid as it can be because you will be bailing on a lot of flops when you don't hit your set, str8 or flush draws. It takes some adjusting to a game like this for sure, but if you continue to fold everything you will get blinded off and miss some good opps to make big hands and take down some monster pots. It doesn't take too many huge pots at this game to book a rather nice win.

I love to play Suited Ace hands in a game like this but I feel that I am pretty good post flop and I am looking to flush up and I can bail on the flop if I need to. To me it is worth a few extra bets to play suited Ace hands, pairs etc. cause in a 3 hour session how many suited aces, pairs and high suited connectors do we typically see? For the times we miss on the flop vs. the few pots we win that are ginormeeeous it can more than make up for the extra bets here and there. Just my style. Some will disagree completely I'm sure though. Just don't get flip about the game and start playing every hand & cold calling everything. Pace yourself into it. It can be a lot of fun.

Oh and keep track of who is raisng 3 betting with what cards.

[chesspain]

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The key for me in this type of game is whether or not I've been hitting some flops. Math People can say +EV and pot odds are the main (only) consideration but if I'm not hitting flops I don't get into a pot at these types of games without medium pocket pairs or equivalent unless I'm closing the bet and know how much seeing the flop is gonna cost me. Then I'll look with 5-5, Q-Js, Axs, etc. It gets frustrating watching donkeys drag down these monster pots with 9-6os, or seeing that you would have hit runner/runner to win the hand but if you start counting on runner/runner to win then you'll be broke sooner rather than later. Wait till you hit a couple of flops then stick your nose in there a little more often, hoping the poker gods are starting to smile upon you.


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I can't tell if you are kidding or stupid.

[Boggy Depot]

must be stupid 'cause I wasn't kidding

[mikeca]

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This definitely was a wild 3/6 table... In 3 hours, I was down 25 BB's. It was my worst session ever.


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With a couple of LAGs doing lots of preflop raising, posting kills, ect, I generally stay away from hands like Axs, where x is less than T. If the LAGs are really bad post flop too, then this might be ok, but will be high variance.

I was in a 3/6 game Friday night that was passive, till a couple of LAGs joined the table. Had pocket aces that made aces full of sevens beaten by quad sevens. I was down around 25 BB at that point. I made most of it back on one huge pot and left -2 BB. Really high variance.

[KitCloudkicker]

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This definitely was a wild 3/6 table... In 3 hours, I was down 25 BB's. It was my worst session ever.


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With a couple of LAGs doing lots of preflop raising, posting kills, ect, I generally stay away from hands like Axs, where x is less than T. If the LAGs are really bad post flop too, then this might be ok, but will be high variance.

I was in a 3/6 game Friday night that was passive, till a couple of LAGs joined the table. Had pocket aces that made aces full of sevens beaten by quad sevens. I was down around 25 BB at that point. I made most of it back on one huge pot and left -2 BB. Really high variance.

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high variance is unavoidable in this type of game...if you cant stomach the swings you prob should switch tables imo

[mikeca]

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high variance is unavoidable in this type of game...if you cant stomach the swings you prob should switch tables imo

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I agree. The variance really doesn’t bother me. I always bring 60-80 BB with me in case the game gets wild. Original poster seemed concerned about a 25 BB downswing, but I think that is pretty normal in a game with LAGs. Heck, I’ve been –25BB in a passive game, when I was running really bad.

[Yossarian147]

do you also believe in flop lag?

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The key for me in this type of game is whether or not I've been hitting some flops.

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[bluryid]

I love games like this, but prepare yourself for bad beats. You will lose with AA and KK to 9-6off and the like and it will be costly, but on the flip side when you do win you'll win huge pots that will more than make up for it.

IMO the key is position. I would fold Axs, suited connectors, and low pocket pairs in EP and MP if people are 3 or 4-betting preflop most of the time. At the same time I'll loosen way up if I can see a flop for one or two bets in LP.

Basically play very nittish in EP and MP and very loose in LP when it's cheap. Punish them when you have a hand. Don't get too married to AA or KK(If you're concerned enough to be in this forum you probably know when you're beat with these hands)

[Frond]

I was going to start a new thread but since this is already going it would be easier.

I just got back from a short live 4/8 session that started out LP for about 30 minutes but somebody flipped a switch on this one guy and he started raising every hand, 3 betting, capping etc. Every single hand and also cold calling anything. His PF hand requirements were 3 important ones: either both cards black, both red or one black and one red card. You get the picture. Anyways, he starts with the maniac play. Right away the whole table (except for me and maybe one other girl)is cold calling and 3 betting, capping thinking that he is FOS. He was raising with all marg hands but he was on a flop rush and kept hitting 2 pairs, str8s etc and he won about 5 racks after being down from about $60. I was willing to bang with this table but never got much to play. The thing I really took notice of was how people were willing to play and cold call marg hands against him, in position and out of position. His influence on most of the table was amazing. Everyone (save me and the girl) were all playing marg hands against him. He'd raise PF, and people would call with 39s etc. I saw lots of people lose a lot very quickly cause they were playing the wrong kinds of hands. I was dying for some pairs, high suited connectors or some suited aces in pos.

[Gap23Razor]

good question...a situation i struggle with too....and a lot of great advice from others...

my small contribution to the discussion....

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In frustration, I began to play looser in middle position a bit and play hands that are for late position only: Ex. calling with 75s, KTs, QJo, etc... Sometimes, hands weren't being raised pre-flop but 6 or 7 out of 8 players were in, so I began hoping I could hit the flop hard without a raise... There was just so much dead money going in... Sounds like this was the wrong approach... I was gambling that the LAG's wouldn't go "wild" on that hand...


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in those situations if you got in for a call preflop i think you made a good bet...i believe all pairs, Axs, Kxs, Q8s+, J7s+, no gap suited 43s+, 1 gap suited 53s+, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JT+, are all playable hands when lots of limpers no raise...but the difficulty in using such a wide range is, as you note, being raised from behind when playing a hand in the lower part of this range...

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I do need more experience playing at table withs 3+ LAG's... The advice I hear most is to tighten up a lot pre-flop. I re-read the pre-flop section in SSHE and it helped...

Thanks all...

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going back to SSHE is an excellent move--i did that too...i don't really have a statistical analysis/simulation to backup what would be the best adjustment---

yet in the situation you describe i think a general concept could be applied to come up with good adjustment--at least this is what i do

i try to play the starting hand recommendations a little different than stated in the book SSHE...my thinking is with lots of betting preflop i will not necessarily get the implied odds on later rounds to justify using the "loose" game starting hands, so i use the "tight" game starting hands but discount bets from the uber-LAG preflop -- that is if two bets to me and one raise was due to the uberLAG i play as if it is only 1 bet to me to call...his betting is probably a large part baloney...

postflop i count the outs and hope to have enough to stay in...but its a lot of flops seen and folded and i figure in won't start an hand without 12bb's.

don't really know if what is do is best, but playing strictly to the starting hand charts resulted in few hands played and when i did catch a hand, little action postflop...