Awkward hand means awkward river

[marchron]

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But really, flush over isn't that common.

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True as this is, it'd be a lot more likely here than in most other hands. We have the second worst possible flush (since we hold 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] the only flush that can be worse given this board is 53[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) and there's four other people who were hanging around until this point for some reason.

Given that, I don't think check/call is terrible here.

[BigBadBabar]

wow march, wow

[Shillx]

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wow march, wow

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We're gonna lose to a better flush a good % of the time. That said I would still bet.

[pokerkasper]

Gyus. Everyone knows, in general it´s necessary to bet for value on the river. All i´m saying is. Sometimes in LH, especially Small and Micro there might be exceptions depending on several factors, which make a check more profitable. Unfortunatly or fortunatly those exceptions are not discussed in the Poker-Theorie for the sake of simplification, which is OK. IMO the hand above is such an exception. It´s that Hero is first to bet against 4 players. Given a lot of players in those limits are like the CO-player here, you might get added value by checking the river. Simply give them a chance to make a move or value bet into you. If they don´t have a hand to bet this flop, the have no hand to call your bet. So you lose nothing. But if they have a hand strong enough to call a possible flush, they have a hand strong enough to bet and you may extract extra money by simply check-raise. Its all about your relative position the number of players on the river. This dont work by less than 4 or 5 players. Also the small flush may be an extra factor to check here. No question, against 2 players you bet this micro-flush. But here with 5 players hanging around on a textured board in microlimits it´s not unlikely you will be surprised by a nut-flush.

Neverless you might auto-play this hand by betting and i might be completely wrong. I simply like to take my freedom and think about this hand.

[OziBattler]

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Given a lot of players in those limits are like the CO-player here

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I disagree with this.



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IMO the hand above is such an exception.

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Why do you think that? You have a guy who posted UTG plus another poster and the one guy who we have stats on is certified as erratic.

Im all for considering the exceptions and whilst it is possible that we were drawing to a worse flush here there will also be times when our opponents surprise us cos they dont play like we do.......I suppose you could "check and see"...ie check and see who bets and plan a CR if someone right after you bets but personally I prefer to bet/call rather than CR because being 3 bet would really suck here.

[KitCloudkicker]

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. Simply give them a chance to make a move or value bet into you. If they don´t have a hand to bet this flop, the have no hand to call your bet. So you lose nothing.

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i've been playing poker for 2 years, and this happens so frequently that i can tell what will happen before it happens. if you check, two pair will likely check, top pair will check, and you GET NOTHING!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY SIR!!

if you bet, two pair wont like it but HE'LL CALL ANYWAY, and really bad players (that frequent these games) will still call with top pair. Hell, I'd still definitely call with two pair if i dont have a read on a guy and i'd be happy to do so.

if you check here and two bad players check that would have called, which on this type of board is very probable, you just missed out on two BB's for no reason at all. stop thinking that you can only bet the river with the nuts; you'll be missing on tons of potential profitability.

if you find that people are auto-folding to your bets whenever a potential draw hits and thus making them have no value- heres some news for you - you arent betting enough.

[Xhad]

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We're gonna lose to a better flush a good % of the time. That said I would still bet.

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[Oink]

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We're gonna lose to a better flush a good % of the time. That said I would still bet.

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[pokerkasper]

If you want to talk seriously about poker cool down and stop any kind of aggressions in your postings. I know exactly what you mean, i know the standard play and i need not any advice.

Calling a bet here with any pair, two pair or trips is really weak. In this spot you are only about 5% to catch a bluff. Not enough to call multiway. OK there are a lot of weak players out calling this. I know it and i like it. The nice thing is, there are a lot of players out there in these limits betting into your flush too. Weak play. My stats say about 7% of the 5+ply river-hands are checked through here. In 1/2 to .25/.50 and 5+ players still in, it happens f.i. frequently that i`m sitting with a flush there and a east-european or scandinavian fires out after 2 player checked with a straight, trips or even two pairs. Thats why i thought why not checking here with a flush first to bet? And i have good results with this play. There are rare situations with hands higher than pair checking through behind me in this limit without tight players. The value i lose here is outweighted by the surprise action i get after my check, when one of the last 2 players to act bets.

I would still bet here with a nut flush. Here i get my extra money from weak players who raise with a slightly weaker flush on the river and from value-betting the turn.

If you are not first to bet here, than its wright to bet for value. Also if they ALL are passive and the river is often checked i would auto-bet it out here.

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and:
"if you find that people are auto-folding to your bets whenever a potential draw hits and thus making them have no value- heres some news for you - you arent betting enough."

Here are some news for you. People in these limits don´t care much about betting patterns. And it doesn´t matter much if you bet "enough" or not. A bet in this spot alerts a flush for sure. Anyone who wants to call here knows he has to deal with a sure flush. If anyone is betting "enough" by bluff betting here s/he lose money.

[KitCloudkicker]

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If you want to talk seriously about poker cool down and stop any kind of aggressions in your postings.

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lol obv you havent seen charlie and the chocolate factory [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] its a joke man.

ok you've made your point, i've made mine. i assume you're crushing your game as i'm crushing mine...so if we're both playing optimally then lets drop it. no sense arguing any more.