Online poker, and unpaid student loans…

[jackaaron]

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Personally I would consider making it a term of the Federally guaranteed loan agreements that the borrower not engage in online gambling subject to some pretty harsh if not criminal penalties for violating this agreement. And I would extend that until the person begins repayment of the loans.

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I agree. Also anyone receiving a student loan should be barred from spending money on all other forms of gambling, drinking, smoking, fast food, pretty girls, vacations, ...

When you borrow money from the Government they should own you.

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They should also post federal marshalls outside of student loan recipients' dorms to ensure said students don't stay out too late, and to ensure they're in class on time. They can also ensure recipients don't attempt to go to Vegas. After all, adults cannot be trusted to make their own decisions. Government should do that. Just ask Stalin, Mao, or Kyl.

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This isn't specifically for the post I'm quoting, but I hope that my orig post isn't meant to be a dig at college students using loans for poker.

I really was just wondering about the repercussions over the next several years.

I realize that those same students could be using the money for other things entirely if online poker didn't exist.

But, when a fun trend emerges (such as online poker), I think that you have not only the students that would normally use student loans for things other than tuition, books, rent, BUT a large group of people borrowing for online poker ADDED ON to that first group.

We're not talking like a few thousand...most of us know that you can get additional loans over the course of your 4 years that total more than 20k (maybe more), and that's completely separate from your tuition, books, etc. loans. I'm not talking overage here.

[CountingMyOuts]

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Student loans are a scary thing. The schools and loan companies make it ridiculously easy for students to borrow large sums of money-- often much more than they need or can repay. And, most students simply have no real concept of how difficult it can be to repay the $100k+ they are able to borrow. I am not sure how the gambling community should address this, but it is all too obvious that a HUGE percentage of the online gambling occurring is done by "kids" in college, and obviously a good number of them receive federal loans.

Personally I would consider making it a term of the Federally guaranteed loan agreements that the borrower not engage in online gambling subject to some pretty harsh if not criminal penalties for violating this agreement. And I would extend that until the person begins repayment of the loans.

It is incredibly immoral and harmful to society for anyone to convert a program which is not only intended for one's own, but future generations education to bankroll their gambling.

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It is people like YOU that are the precise reason why the UIGEA was formulated, prohibition of alcohol was attempted, etc,. etc.

It should not be the government's role to be a nanny state. We all should be responsible for own actions.

[Mendacious]

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Student loans are a scary thing. The schools and loan companies make it ridiculously easy for students to borrow large sums of money-- often much more than they need or can repay. And, most students simply have no real concept of how difficult it can be to repay the $100k+ they are able to borrow. I am not sure how the gambling community should address this, but it is all too obvious that a HUGE percentage of the online gambling occurring is done by "kids" in college, and obviously a good number of them receive federal loans.

Personally I would consider making it a term of the Federally guaranteed loan agreements that the borrower not engage in online gambling subject to some pretty harsh if not criminal penalties for violating this agreement. And I would extend that until the person begins repayment of the loans.

It is incredibly immoral and harmful to society for anyone to convert a program which is not only intended for one's own, but future generations education to bankroll their gambling.


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It is people like YOU that are the precise reason why the UIGEA was formulated, prohibition of alcohol was attempted, etc,. etc.

It should not be the government's role to be a nanny state. We all should be responsible for own actions.




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You sound like one of those morons that thinks that thinks that the First Amendment applies to non-governmental censorship. There is a huge difference between prohibition, entitlement and a loan contract.

Let me be clear, I am practically libertarian as far as governmental interference is concerned. But what you have here is the Goverment through its power to tax setting up a program to benefit society as a whole by making education available to those who otherwise could not afford it.

Using student loans to gamble is indefenseable. You want to gamble, fine, just don't do it with tax-payer money earmarked for education. Using this money for gambling is tantamount to fraud, and is no different than misappropriating any other type of funding-- for which there are criminal consequences. It has nothing to do with being a Nanny state, or being responsible for oneself. It is about misappropriating money and putting a program at risk that is for the education of others.

Not only does the government have EVERY right to take steps to see that the money it is lending for education gets USED for education, in the face of evidence that it is NOT being used for education, it has a responsibility to protect the taxpayers and the future generations that this program is intended to benefit.

Frankly, gambling with borrowed money where the lender believes the money is being lent for some other purpose is about as unethical as it gets. I don't think anyone at 2+2, which is a site for responsible gamblers, should be condoning it.

You can quibble all you want about whether the Gov. can realistically police this, (and I might agree) but don't try to pass off gambling with the Gov.s' education loans as something that the Gov. has no business interfering with.

[hugheser]

I work at a university and used to employ lots of students. Most of them blew their refund checks on alcohol, partying, drugs, computers, video game systems, and home theaters. One guy I know bought a motorcycle. Others load up their credit cards and have thousands of dollars of high interest debt. I think the fact that some chose to gamble with their money isn't the issue.

[Mendacious]

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They should also post federal marshalls outside of student loan recipients' dorms to ensure said students don't stay out too late, and to ensure they're in class on time. They can also ensure recipients don't attempt to go to Vegas. After all, adults cannot be trusted to make their own decisions. Government should do that. Just ask Stalin, Mao, or Kyl.

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Or maybe they should just forego the loan contract altogether and just give away all the money to anyone for any reason.

Frankly Engineer, I thought you were a little smarter. My impression is that those (and I count myself as one) who are fighting to repeal UIGEA, or work towards exempting poker are trying to make the case that the government should not interfere with people's rights to gamble RESPONSIBLY. To that end, I would expect that we would also want to protect minors from gambling by setting age limits and demanding a form of age verification, or is that too Stalinist for you.

Using loaned education money is defacto NOT responsible gambling. It would be pretty stupid and irresponsible to ignore this as an issue if in fact it is prevelant.

As for Stalin etc. They have no place in this dialogue. You are talking about a government LOAN program, not human rights. People put morality clauses in contracts all the time to protect their investment. The Gov. has no less right to contract for this than anyone else. Moreover, no one has the "right" to convert taxpayer money to their personal gambling bankroll.

[Mendacious]

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I work at a university and used to employ lots of students. Most of them blew their refund checks on alcohol, partying, drugs, computers, video game systems, and home theaters. One guy I know bought a motorcycle. Others load up their credit cards and have thousands of dollars of high interest debt. I think the fact that some chose to gamble with their money isn't the issue

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Granted, typically a certain percentage of loan money always goes to things that run contrary to the purpose of the loans. I am not sure that is a good thing, but it is probably a necessary byproduct of making the money available. I think the relevant question is whether gambling with student loan money has reached a point where it is creating a problem which jeopardizes the program or the borrower's futures. If that were to be the case, I would expect the government to respond. I don't know that to be the case though-- which is why in my OP I said "I would consider" making no gambling a provision of the loan agreement.

[jackaaron]

I guess I’m just not wanting to see (in the midst of poker trying to become more credible for various reasons) some story on the news taking ten random students who have over 75k in college loans in default that they can’t pay back, and like 30k of that is on poker alone. This has nothing to do with governments taking our freedoms, and so on. It has to do with poker trying to become more credible, and the things that will make that credibility more difficult to attain.

I can hear these interviewees now:

“I started off small, and just put five thousand on. All my friends were doing it. Two weeks later, I have nothing.”

“When the student loan counselor told me that I could get an additional, substantial student loan outside of the ones I currently had, I jumped at the chance to put it online, and turn it into six figures. Two months later, it was all gone, and I realized I would never be able to pay it off.”

You get the picture…

[questions]

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I guess I’m just not wanting to see ...
You get the picture…

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Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Until then, let's stop imitating countries like Saudi Arabia or China.

[hugheser]

I really don't see how some using it for gambling is relevant. It's obviously not a good thing to do. It's incredibly irresponsible and poor money management. But it's not different than wasting it on other unnecessary toys.

I also don't see how the government can regulate it. The students get a check and they deposit it into their bank accounts. The government has no clue about what happens to it afterwards. They may use it to pay rent or use it to buy an HDTV. How would anyone know if the $1000 they deposited into FTP came from the refund check or other money they have. What is the solution? Making it illegal to gamble until you've paid off your loans?

Remember the government and corporations make money off of giving out loans. You pay interest on them. I don't see how people gambling with their loan money is going to hurt the program. They still have to pay off the money and the people in charge get their interest.

[Uglyowl]

I understand the potential for the problem, but isn’t the real issue the amount of money being made available to college kids not the “evils of society” vying for their dollar whether it is strippers, alcohol, cigarettes, plasma TV’s, fancy cars, big party houses, poker, etc.?