KK hand. 4400 stacks 5-10 6-max.. - Page 3

fsuplayer · #21 03-01-2006, 01:14 PM

this thead is retarded.

fsuplayer · #22 03-01-2006, 01:15 PM

folding the turn sucks.

punter11235 · #23 03-01-2006, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, what range are you guys putting a laggy player on to fold this turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

He can have str8, set, 2pair, AA or bluff. What is really important here is our range, not his. If I called his reraise preflop and then flop bet my range there is : set - 7combos, JJ-QQ-KK 18 combos , AA - 6combos. After his turn pot bet I can happily fold at least 50% of my range without worrying about being bluffed. In actual play I can fold a lot more because : a)most players when they bet big with deep stacks actually have a hand b)most players will bet again on the river (so I can extract more with my stronger hands) c)some players after bluffing the turn will fire again on the river d)most players will pay me off here with other overpair if I have a set.

Summing this all up I can safely fold my lesser overpairs cause I will extract real fortune with my sets here (AA is more problematic hands, cause if we had AA Villain often has KK and he in fact maybe value betting big with that hand). The beauty of this reasoning is that I will gain a lot as long as Villain is loose preflop and plays aggressively postflop with many diffrent hands. I dont really care if he is bluffing or not. If he always bluff that way - fine I will extract sth from him if I have better hand here next time.

Requin · #24 03-01-2006, 01:16 PM

fsu, does this mean you play the hand like OP did?

punter11235 · #25 03-01-2006, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed, no reason to raise in this hand and no one is suggesting that you should

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising with that hand is actually retarded. You dont beat anything normal on the turn. The only hopee is that we will make some money if Villain is either bluffign or stupid enough to value bet QQ/JJ raising takes away this last hope...

cero_z · #26 03-01-2006, 01:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this thead is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you. What a bunch of nits you guys are to suggest that you should fold the turn.

The only spot that sucks a little here is the river, at which point he's seen you call 1K, so he knows you are strong, and still bets 2K when the Q hits. At that point, he could be said to be bluffing with less than AQ, and he can't feel great about AQ.

Regardless, if you are thinking about folding on the turn, this guy is not LAGgy. Well played until the turn call, and in many cases, calling is right there, too. Those cases are the ones in which he will not shut down a bluff when you call a thou. Good LAGs probably will, so you are just giving THEM a free shot to spike a 2 or 3 outer on you by smoothcalling the turn.

The fact that he bet big, but didn't move all-in on the river is fairly scary. Regardless, I am usually calling here, knowing that I probably messed up on the turn.

punter11235 · #27 03-01-2006, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The only spot that sucks a little here is the river,

[/ QUOTE ]

Cero, c'mon I can see calling the turn vs really crazy maniacs but river doesnt suck at all. Its pure 100% easy fold. It would be tough if Villain had bet 1k instead of 2k for example.

thabadguy · #28 03-01-2006, 02:11 PM

shoving turn is sometimes correct here

diddle · #29 03-01-2006, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only spot that sucks a little here is the river,

[/ QUOTE ]

Cero, c'mon I can see calling the turn vs really crazy maniacs but river doesnt suck at all. Its pure 100% easy fold. It would be tough if Villain had bet 1k instead of 2k for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOOOOOOO 2k!!!!! Please check the size of the pot.

It's only 2/3 pot at this point. In every game I play this is a call.

Jason Strasser (strassa2) · #30 03-01-2006, 03:02 PM

Punter,

If you keep thinking this "OMG xxBB with one pair! What a fish play!"

You will get just torn up by creative players. Stop making general statements about hand strenghts, you can't assign a value of 'one pair'.

It would be better to say something along the lines of, your call here with KK is likely the same as a call with 82o on this board, you only beat a bluff.

I would say, my default line here, is to call the turn and fold the river, but against some a turn fold is clear and against some a river call is clear.

You also mentioned this would be hard if villain bet 1k... I think you are looking at a better hand if villain bets 1k more than you are from a villain who bets the pot, generally.

But seriously, you sound really idiotic when you keep making these 'one pair! omg! fold!' statements.

-Jason