Focus on the Family [censored] Warning About the 6/8 IGREA Hearing

[Skallagrim]

In reply to Legislurker: So Daniel N. (a self professed christian) is much closer to god than the social worker who cares for the mentally retarded? He certainly has more money than her, and continues to make more....

This is actually a very good example of why faith based reasoning has no place in making social policy.

[TheEngineer]

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What it comes down to is stewardship. You are called on by God to be a good steward of your money. Even if you yourself are making a profit, someone is paying you and paying the rake. So the fish are sinning by being bad stewards of their money. Without getting into the differences between mainstream protestant denominations and the modern evangelical/charismatics, a simple way of putting it is.........The better you do with your money, the more favor from God you have incurred. Part of the whole sales pitch(and these people are AWESOME at sales) is get God, get a better life, and money is a big part of it.

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They have a weak, convoluted argument there, I think, as "good stewardship" would involve never spending to excess, ever.

Today's hearing showed the validity of questioning the validity of FOF's claim that gambling is a sin. Again, not a debate, but a simple statement that "it's not in the Bible" to expose the hypocrisy of their position. It may not suit one guy here, but it scored points at today's hearing.

[jbrent33]

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Rereading that and watching Stewart recently, I had an idea I would love to see come to fruition. Larry Flint has offered a million to anyone who can document a member of Congress having improper sex. Maybe something similar listing congresspeople who have gambled large sums of money or participated in illegal home or DC cardgames. Not sure if Flint would put the money up or not, but as I recall he is a blackjack freak.

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Now you are on to something. In my experience one thing that can almost always be counted on in religious zealots is hypocrisy. Some examples that immediately come to mind:

James Dobson's good buddy and fellow gay hater Ted Haggard is (was? can you really get "cured") a closet homosexual.

William Bennett, author of The Book of Virtues and co-founder of Empower America (a group with a strong anti-casino position among other things) is a degenerate slot junkie.

Rush Limbaugh (surely no explanation needed) is a pill head.

I am sure there more appropriate strategies for fighting the mullahs of the Christian right but I for one would like to see FTP and Stars pony up 500K each for information regarding the gambling habits of members of Congress. They should also check their own records and see who has an account.

[Legislurker]

Im not saying "closer to God". What these people sell, and evangelicals SELL what they preach, is a lifestyle for lack of a better word. Part and parcel of adopting their preaching is a MATERIALLY better life. Their megachurches thrive in urban areas. People who are or were poor and uneducated are large parts of their flocks. Shut-in older people who hear them on TV or the radio. And, yes, they have had successes improving people's lives by better managing money. They do not hold back when showing off wealth and "success in God". You can almost draw a straight line back to 17th century Dutch Calvinist merchants equating
their wealth from trade as a sign of being predestined for heaven. As having experience with these people in daily life, and having friends and family having bought into it, Im trying to relate to you where they have a PARTICULAR loathing for gambling. Ive read their books and publication, even heard a roadio braodcast or two, and its almost fascinating the hatred of gambling. Look at the huge popularity of Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey and others. They even have a Christian FInancial broadcasting network. This is not the Christianity of Christ saying, "One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me." Theirs is the mercantile version from the Old testament of tithing and hoarding and getting rich without losing heaven, if you can.
Its just my humble opinion on why they so hate gambling, probably not right but based on experience of their movement.

[PBJaxx]

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Rereading that and watching Stewart recently, I had an idea I would love to see come to fruition. Larry Flint has offered a million to anyone who can document a member of Congress having improper sex. Maybe something similar listing congresspeople who have gambled large sums of money or participated in illegal home or DC cardgames. Not sure if Flint would put the money up or not, but as I recall he is a blackjack freak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you are on to something. In my experience one thing that can almost always be counted on in religious zealots is hypocrisy. Some examples that immediately come to mind:

James Dobson's good buddy and fellow gay hater Ted Haggard is (was? can you really get "cured") a closet homosexual.

William Bennett, author of The Book of Virtues and co-founder of Empower America (a group with a strong anti-casino position among other things) is a degenerate slot junkie.

Rush Limbaugh (surely no explanation needed) is a pill head.

I am sure there more appropriate strategies for fighting the mullahs of the Christian right but I for one would like to see FTP and Stars pony up 500K each for information regarding the gambling habits of members of Congress. They should also check their own records and see who has an account.



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This is NOT a good idea. By pointing out this kind of hypocrisy you only support the side that says gambling is bad, you just call out that person as being bad as well. Besides, citing extreme examples of behavior from individual people has no place in this process. It is like pointing out that one kid robbed a bank because he acquired an online gambling debt, and we know how effective that is against us.

[jbrent33]

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Rereading that and watching Stewart recently, I had an idea I would love to see come to fruition. Larry Flint has offered a million to anyone who can document a member of Congress having improper sex. Maybe something similar listing congresspeople who have gambled large sums of money or participated in illegal home or DC cardgames. Not sure if Flint would put the money up or not, but as I recall he is a blackjack freak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you are on to something. In my experience one thing that can almost always be counted on in religious zealots is hypocrisy. Some examples that immediately come to mind:

James Dobson's good buddy and fellow gay hater Ted Haggard is (was? can you really get "cured") a closet homosexual.

William Bennett, author of The Book of Virtues and co-founder of Empower America (a group with a strong anti-casino position among other things) is a degenerate slot junkie.

Rush Limbaugh (surely no explanation needed) is a pill head.

I am sure there more appropriate strategies for fighting the mullahs of the Christian right but I for one would like to see FTP and Stars pony up 500K each for information regarding the gambling habits of members of Congress. They should also check their own records and see who has an account.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is NOT a good idea. By pointing out this kind of hypocrisy you only support the side that says gambling is bad, you just call out that person as being bad as well. Besides, citing extreme examples of behavior from individual people has no place in this process. It is like pointing out that one kid robbed a bank because he acquired an online gambling debt, and we know how effective that is against us.

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That was pretty effective, right? It made national news. If a story was to break that several prominent anti-gambling Senators had a weekly 1K buy-in game in an office on the Hill it would hurt our cause? Explain how, I don't get it.

[MyPC8MyMoney]

When churches start messing with government it becomes time to start taxing their profits.

SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE ? OR CHURCH RUNNING STATE ?

You decide :-)

[PBJaxx]

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It is like pointing out that one kid robbed a bank because he acquired an online gambling debt, and we know how effective that is against us.


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That was pretty effective, right? It made national news. If a story was to break that several prominent anti-gambling Senators had a weekly 1K buy-in game in an office on the Hill it would hurt our cause? Explain how, I don't get it.

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That may have been a bad example. They aren't the same thing. In a simplistic idiot world someone could say:

Online gambling leads kid to rob bank --> Online gambling = bad

You cannot, however, conclude this:

Congressman says online gambling is bad, but he does it himself --> Online gambling is okay

Calling out a congressman only identifies hipocracy of one man, it does not say anything to the appropriateness of the law. In fact, if the gambling of a congressman caused family/financial issues, it may actually strengthen their stance.

[PBJaxx]

I should point out that the original idea is not without merit. If it were some home games filled with congress people, I guess it could be good. I just want to avoid pointing out any "bad" aspects associated with gambling such as big losses or an illegal game.

[Legislurker]

I guess my ideal scenario for the hypocrisy part would run like this, "Mr. President, do you feel the least bit uncomfortable signing legislation that stop the average American from playing a $10 poker tournament in his home, while you have a monthly ILLEGAL home poker game in Crawford or DC where lobbyists and industrialists lose thousands of dollars to you to curry favor?" That probably will never come to pass as the soft left media hates gambling as well.