Michael Moore and socialized medicine

[ShakeZula06]

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The problem with capitalism is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely gets richer.

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What do you base this on?

[karlwig]

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The problem with capitalism is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely gets richer.

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What do you base this on?

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Why do you think a lot of countries are giving money to help Africa?

This is basic knowledge. If you were raised in a wealthy family, the chanses you'll become rich are greater than if you come from a poor family.

[Ron Paul]

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The problem with government is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely get richer.

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Under capitalism, all a poor person has to do to become richer is produce more than they consume and save the extra.

Government make sure this is impossible by taxing the poor so heavily that it is very difficult to produce more than you "consume" (including the paying of taxes), so that it is impossible to save, and the poor are made to be dependent on government "services". Taxing the poor outright isn't very popular though (although it is done; the 15.3% FICA taxes, for example), so it's best to do it with hidden taxes and taxes that weigh more heavily upon their standards of living, like inflation, embedded taxes in goods and services, gasoline taxes, property taxes, sales taxes on food and clothing, etc.

And the only way for a rich person to make more money under capitalism is to employ it satisfying the needs wants and desires of others, most importantly the poor; who collectively have far more purchasing power than the rich. Ask WalMart. There is far more productive capital employed producing Fords and Toyotas than is employed producing Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

[Ron Paul]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with capitalism is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely gets richer.

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What do you base this on?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think a lot of countries are giving money to help Africa?

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Africa remains poor because of a lack of capitalism.

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If you were raised in a wealthy family, the chanses you'll become rich are greater than if you come from a poor family.

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While obviously true, this has nothing to do with your earlier claim.

[karlwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with government is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely get richer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under capitalism, all a poor person has to do to become richer is produce more than they consume and save the extra.

Government make sure this is impossible by taxing the poor so heavily that it is very difficult to produce more than you "consume" (including the paying of taxes), so that it is impossible to save, and the poor are made to be dependent on government "services". Taxing the poor outright isn't very popular though (although it is done; the 15.3% FICA taxes, for example), so it's best to do it with hidden taxes and taxes that weigh more heavily upon their standards of living, like inflation, embedded taxes in goods and services, gasoline taxes, property taxes, sales taxes on food and clothing, etc.

And the only way for a rich person to make more money under capitalism is to employ it satisfying the needs wants and desires of others, most importantly the poor; who collectively have far more purchasing power than the rich. Ask WalMart. There is far more productive capital employed producing Fords and Toyotas than is employed producing Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

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I don't quite get what you're saying. Is there a problem having a goverment? Would everybody be better off if there was no tax? If you think so, I'm really interessted in knowing what sort of society that would be. Of course there would be no public schools, making it very difficult for poor peaple to get a real education in order to MAKE money.
There would be no police, or are you suggesting a free market-ruled police force? What about the military?

I really hope we agree that to SOME degree, it's important to have a goverment that controls things.

Of course you're right in all the positive sides of a free market. Just so you know, I'm not arguing for not having capitalism. But one of the downsides of capitalism is that it makes huge gaps between rich and poor. Therefore I think it's important to combine capitalism and socialism in order to create wealth and growth for all people.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with government is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely get richer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under capitalism, all a poor person has to do to become richer is produce more than they consume and save the extra.

Government make sure this is impossible by taxing the poor so heavily that it is very difficult to produce more than you "consume" (including the paying of taxes), so that it is impossible to save, and the poor are made to be dependent on government "services". Taxing the poor outright isn't very popular though (although it is done; the 15.3% FICA taxes, for example), so it's best to do it with hidden taxes and taxes that weigh more heavily upon their standards of living, like inflation, embedded taxes in goods and services, gasoline taxes, property taxes, sales taxes on food and clothing, etc.

And the only way for a rich person to make more money under capitalism is to employ it satisfying the needs wants and desires of others, most importantly the poor; who collectively have far more purchasing power than the rich. Ask WalMart. There is far more productive capital employed producing Fords and Toyotas than is employed producing Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't quite get what you're saying. Is there a problem having a goverment? Would everybody be better off if there was no tax? If you think so, I'm really interessted in knowing what sort of society that would be. Of course there would be no public schools, making it very difficult for poor peaple to get a real education in order to MAKE money.
There would be no police, or are you suggesting a free market-ruled police force? What about the military?

I really hope we agree that to SOME degree, it's important to have a goverment that controls things.

Of course you're right in all the positive sides of a free market. Just so you know, I'm not arguing for not having capitalism. But one of the downsides of capitalism is that it makes huge gaps between rich and poor. Therefore I think it's important to combine capitalism and socialism in order to create wealth and growth for all people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple question for Karl Marx, I mean Karlwig.

Which of the following incomes for members of society:
A:
Everyone makes $30,000

B:
90% of people make $29,000
10% of people make $300,000

[Nonfiction]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't quite get what you're saying. Is there a problem having a goverment? Would everybody be better off if there was no tax? If you think so, I'm really interessted in knowing what sort of society that would be. Of course there would be no public schools, making it very difficult for poor peaple to get a real education in order to MAKE money.
There would be no police, or are you suggesting a free market-ruled police force? What about the military?

I really hope we agree that to SOME degree, it's important to have a goverment that controls things.

Of course you're right in all the positive sides of a free market. Just so you know, I'm not arguing for not having capitalism. But one of the downsides of capitalism is that it makes huge gaps between rich and poor. Therefore I think it's important to combine capitalism and socialism in order to create wealth and growth for all people.

[/ QUOTE ]
You poor bastard, welcome to the politics forum, enjoy your conversion to (or extreme hatred of) ACism

[karlwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with government is that people with money can easilly make more money, while poor people rarely get richer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under capitalism, all a poor person has to do to become richer is produce more than they consume and save the extra.

Government make sure this is impossible by taxing the poor so heavily that it is very difficult to produce more than you "consume" (including the paying of taxes), so that it is impossible to save, and the poor are made to be dependent on government "services". Taxing the poor outright isn't very popular though (although it is done; the 15.3% FICA taxes, for example), so it's best to do it with hidden taxes and taxes that weigh more heavily upon their standards of living, like inflation, embedded taxes in goods and services, gasoline taxes, property taxes, sales taxes on food and clothing, etc.

And the only way for a rich person to make more money under capitalism is to employ it satisfying the needs wants and desires of others, most importantly the poor; who collectively have far more purchasing power than the rich. Ask WalMart. There is far more productive capital employed producing Fords and Toyotas than is employed producing Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't quite get what you're saying. Is there a problem having a goverment? Would everybody be better off if there was no tax? If you think so, I'm really interessted in knowing what sort of society that would be. Of course there would be no public schools, making it very difficult for poor peaple to get a real education in order to MAKE money.
There would be no police, or are you suggesting a free market-ruled police force? What about the military?

I really hope we agree that to SOME degree, it's important to have a goverment that controls things.

Of course you're right in all the positive sides of a free market. Just so you know, I'm not arguing for not having capitalism. But one of the downsides of capitalism is that it makes huge gaps between rich and poor. Therefore I think it's important to combine capitalism and socialism in order to create wealth and growth for all people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple question for Karl Marx, I mean Karlwig.

Which of the following incomes for members of society:
A:
Everyone makes $30,000

B:
90% of people make $29,000
10% of people make $300,000

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said all people should earn the same. What are you trying to prove?

[lozen]

The reality is your system is terrible and ours is not the perfect here in Canada. The example of someone waiting 14 days for Non life threatening surgery. Tell me what is wrong with that? I am curious how both systems hold up when all those baby boomers get old? One thing I notice with soem Americans if you discuss ways to improve there system and God forbid tell them something's wrong with there system.
Its America's number one. Great attitude if it was true. Though I love the USA [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Overall the Topic was Michael Moores film and if get people talking and debating he has done part of what his movie intended.

[natedogg]

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I think this is the main point where people disagree. I think most people agree that capitalism and the free market works very well. However, if you think that everyones life is equally important, and everyone deserves equal health care, then capitalism is obv not going to get it done.

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Can you show that? Insurance is pretty cheap right now even under the burden of overregulation. Why wouldn't freedom of choice (i.e. capitalism) be able to provide health coverage for all?

natedogg