Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game

[Victor]

"What exactly do you disagree with here??"

im disagreeing with your assessment that he is on of the best players ever bc some scouts and observers rated him so. have you ever paid attention to the draft of any sport? remember how many players are the next mj, wilt, bird, magic etc...

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Duncan is extremely underrated. We all love flash. So of course someone who plays boring and unimaginative basketball isn't going to be rated fairly. MEbenhoe, your career averages for both players ignore the fact that Robinson played in an era where 20 more points were scored per game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Robinson's best season was '93-'94 (29.8 ppg), when the league average was 101.5 ppg. Duncan's best season was 01'02 (25.5 ppg), when the league average was 95.5 ppg. So no, the difference wasn't 20, and no, Duncan's numbers aren't better than Robinson's when adjusted for era.

[teamdonkey]

Hakeem vs Duncan - Hakeem was better both offensively and defensively. His titles were won with an arguably weaker supporting cast than Duncan's. The difference isn't large, but i'm not sure how anyone can argue on Duncan's side of that one. Although Duncan's career is far from over and this could change.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
"What exactly do you disagree with here??"

im disagreeing with your assessment that he is on of the best players ever bc some scouts and observers rated him so. have you ever paid attention to the draft of any sport? remember how many players are the next mj, wilt, bird, magic etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

so where do you rank him?

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Duncan is extremely underrated. We all love flash. So of course someone who plays boring and unimaginative basketball isn't going to be rated fairly. MEbenhoe, your career averages for both players ignore the fact that Robinson played in an era where 20 more points were scored per game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Robinson's best season was '93-'94 (29.8 ppg), when the league average was 101.5 ppg. Duncan's best season was 01'02 (25.5 ppg), when the league average was 95.5 ppg. So no, the difference wasn't 20, and no, Duncan's numbers aren't better than Robinson's when adjusted for era.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats 12. I could pick other seasons and it'd be 20.

Duncan causes his team to win moreso than Robinson. Bottom line.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"What exactly do you disagree with here??"

im disagreeing with your assessment that he is on of the best players ever bc some scouts and observers rated him so. have you ever paid attention to the draft of any sport? remember how many players are the next mj, wilt, bird, magic etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

so where do you rank him?

[/ QUOTE ]

a little above rik smitts?

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
Hakeem vs Duncan - Hakeem was better both offensively and defensively. His titles were won with an arguably weaker supporting cast than Duncan's. The difference isn't large, but i'm not sure how anyone can argue on Duncan's side of that one. Although Duncan's career is far from over and this could change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duncan is favored to win his 4th title this year, Hakeem won two. I give Hakeem a ton of props on his first title- that was amazing, as his cast was extremely average. Next year with Drexler/Mxwell/Thorpe/Smith/Horry/Cassell/Elie it was a very good overall team.

I know that award voters don't always get things 100% right, but Duncan in 10 years has accomplished more than Hakeem did in 18 years! Look....



Hakeem
1984-85 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1984-85 NBA All-Rookie
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1986-87 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1988-89 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1990-91 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1990-91 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1992-93 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1995-96 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1996-97 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1992-93 NBA DPOY
1993-94 NBA DPOY
1993-94 NBA Finals MVP
1993-94 NBA MVP
1993-94 NBA TSN MVP
1994-95 NBA Finals MVP

Duncan
1997-98 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1997-98 NBA ROY
1997-98 NBA TSN ROY
1998-99 NBA Finals MVP
1999-00 NBA AS MVP
2001-02 NBA MVP
2001-02 NBA TSN MVP
2002-03 NBA Finals MVP
2002-03 NBA MVP
2002-03 NBA TSN MVP
2004-05 NBA Finals MVP


Duncan averages 21.8, 11.9, and 3.2. Hakeem averages 21.8, 11.1, and 2.5. And thats not even factoring in pace and era.

Hakeem's career PER is 23.6, Duncan's is 25.2.


More titles despite having at best a similar cast over the coures of his career, better stats despite playing on a slower paced team and in a lower scoring era, more awards and honors, better PER....how can you say "i'm not sure how anyone can argue on Duncan's side"?

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"What exactly do you disagree with here??"

im disagreeing with your assessment that he is on of the best players ever bc some scouts and observers rated him so. have you ever paid attention to the draft of any sport? remember how many players are the next mj, wilt, bird, magic etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

so where do you rank him?

[/ QUOTE ]

a little above rik smitts?

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

So pro scouts that call him a top 7 or 8 center of all time are flat out wrong? Why do you, having never seen him play in his prime, feel like you know him better than those scouts? Keep in mind that this discussion is "best players ever" and has nothing to do with how well someone played in the NBA or what they accomplished in the NBA.

Victor, there are many areas of sports in which we don't really have a lot of evidence. In those cases, I think its clearly best to trust those with better scouting abilities than us and who have more evidence than us. Do you disagree?

Edited to add: I don't recall many players at all being called the next "MJ, Wilt, Magic, Bird, etc." The few that I recall being hyped that much: Durant, Oden, Shaq, Lebron, Ewing." And the scouts continued to "hype" him when they saw him play and practice with the Blazers during his prime, so its not predraft hype.

[Mano]

[ QUOTE ]
Duncan's Spurs vs Jordan's Bulls would've been a great rivalry. I'm sure both teams would've won less titles if they had to play one another. Along with Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers and Kobe/Shaq's Lakers they're the 5 best teams of my lifetime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duncan's Spurs teams wouldn't (and didn't) beat the Jazz teams that the Bulls disposed of in the finals. They didn't beat any of the Phil Jackson led Kobe/Shaq Laker teams either. The Bulls would have just as many titles if they had to play against any of Tim's Spurs teams.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Duncan's Spurs vs Jordan's Bulls would've been a great rivalry. I'm sure both teams would've won less titles if they had to play one another. Along with Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers and Kobe/Shaq's Lakers they're the 5 best teams of my lifetime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duncan's Spurs teams wouldn't (and didn't) beat the Jazz teams that the Bulls disposed of in the finals. They didn't beat any of the Phil Jackson led Kobe/Shaq Laker teams either. The Bulls would have just as many titles if they had to play against any of Tim's Spurs teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

2002-03
SA Spurs beat Lakers 4-2 in the WCF.


1998-99
Yes I realize this was before Phil Jackson. But Kobe and Shaq were there. Spurs swept them. Coaching isn't enough to change a series when its a sweep.



Bottom line: During the Kobe/Shaq era, they met the Spurs 4 times in the playoffs. They each won 2 series.

Duncan's rookie year was 97-98. Thats pretty unfair to think they could've never beat the Jazz just because they lost that one series when DUncan was a rookie.