"I WANT TO SEE THAT HAND"

[MTDog-7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If you want to see MY hand, pay ME -- not the rake. If the law in Montana lets you see hands whenver you want and for whatever purpose you want, then Montana sucks."

What are you afraid of to show a hand or two once in awhile when requested? Maybe you don't want other players too see just how bad of cards you called down with? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not "afraid" of showing a losing hand -- internet players have learned poker where they get complete hand histories and think they are always entitled to know what other players are playing. In internet poker, there is more collusion and this is very important. While it also ends up being a useful tool to learn about a player, it is not your right to see a losing hand all the time -- except (apparently) in Montana. If you want to see my hand, pay me and I will show it to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't request to see every losing hand, and if your in the hand to the River you "have been paid".....so get over it and turn your cards over when requested. I request it once in awhile when there is very aggressive player who keeps trying to push players around and tends to make a lot of raises and mucks often on the River. I want to get an idea what type of hand the maniac is pushing with. I have no intention to ask to see every losing hand. It is a legal tool that I do use at times to gain information or to push the crazy over the edge, many hyper aggressive players hate having to turn over a hand they want to muck. If you don't like it stay off our card tables. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Milo]

The rule is to prevent collusion. I'm enough of a dick to ask the player who asks to see a hand if he suspects collusion. If he does, fine (I ask sometimes when I'm being jacked between two players, depending on who they are). If he is just seeking info, I explain the purpose of the rule. He usually responds by saying in his squeaky, post-pubescent voice that he is entitled to see the hand (just like on the internet). I tell him he is correct, then ask to see every hand he shows down until the dealer asks me to stop. As I said, I'm a kind of a dick.

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
dealers have been recently trained to just quickly take a folded hand and stick them right in the muck quickly as a matter of habit

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, yes, and yes. Someone folds, get his cards in the muck ASAP. I do this and think it's good practice. Keeps the game moving and helps avoid problems.

Usually people who abuse the IWTSTH are the type Milo is describing. At some point the dealer or house should put an end to the abuse if it's constantly going on. It's bad for the game, but fortunately it's pretty rare that someone jsut keeps on doing it.

In one very cool case at my first dealing job, a total douche was doing it every hand, and after a few the dealer just started mucking them anyway. When douche protested, they broke the table, and reseated him on a dead spread - just him and another dealer. He went into this "that's bull****" routine because no one was being seated, and then the floor told him to stop swearing. He didn't, and they kicked him out.

Seriously, if you're constantly doing this in a B&M casino, you're a total nit, I don't care where it is. Many casinos now (mine included) give some discretion to the floor staff to curb problems like this, to include IWTSTH abuse.

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]

In one very cool case at my first dealing job, a total douche was doing it every hand, and after a few the dealer just started mucking them anyway. When douche protested, they broke the table, and reseated him on a dead spread - just him and another dealer. He went into this "that's bull****" routine because no one was being seated, and then the floor told him to stop swearing. He didn't, and they kicked him out.



[/ QUOTE ]

That was an incredibly retarded way to handle the problem.

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
That was an incredibly retarded way to handle the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was an incredibly retarded place to work

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
don't request to see every losing hand, and if your in the hand to the River you "have been paid".....so get over it and turn your cards over when requested. I request it once in awhile when there is very aggressive player who keeps trying to push players around and tends to make a lot of raises and mucks often on the River. I want to get an idea what type of hand the maniac is pushing with. [yada yada yada] It is a legal tool [yada yada yada]

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
At some point the dealer or house should put an end to the abuse if it's constantly going on. It's bad for the game, but fortunately it's pretty rare that someone jsut keeps on doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It it's slowing down the game, I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, if you're constantly doing this in a B&M casino, you're a total nit,

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

If you're constantly complaining about someone doing this in a casino, you're a total nit.

b

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're constantly complaining about someone doing this in a casino, you're a total nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean me, like I said, I don't see it very often to complain about it constantly. If I did, well, I would probably get pretty annoyed (regardless whether I was dealing or not).

Maybe it's because I'm a little bit old school? It used to be considered bad form pretty much universally, apparently in some places it's becoming more and more acceptable with the internet era. I don't think it's good for the game at all.

[Gonso]

This Tommy Angelo article sums it up a lot better that I can, for those who haven't read it. I don't disagree with any of it myself.

http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/..._that_hand.htm

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]
In Montana it's ALLOWED by LAW so it is ETHICAL. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that not everything that's legal is ethical, right?

They do mean different things.