2/4, QTs SB defence

[TheWunderkind]

btw hows that opponent tricky?

[TheWunderkind]

i mean all those lower two pair hands dont raise River once they just called the Turn 3bet

[TheWunderkind]

and an Ace is just wishfull thinking in my view...hes a little overaggro and overplayed nutflush on paired Board(wich ahppens to em when i mis the fact that the board is paired)...so i just dont see any reason to expect to make money with that call> im with you if you talk about metagame

[mvoss]

Because you fold too much. I don't care how many times you lost today. As I said if you regularly bloat the pot and then fold you'll lose money, and you only have to be right once in 14 to call this river! You'll easily be good often enough to call a river raise against aggressive tricky players no matter what site you play at.

If you want to make big laydowns do it in SMALL pots, not after bloating the pot!

[TheWunderkind]

how do i fold too much?If i fold to much i wouldnt have lost all the River raises i pair off. 36/57 are reasonable for that Level ...i know that the Pot is big and we get 13,5:1 to call > you dont need to explain me that ive heard about it...the Point is you have no reason to believe youre good> you just say hes aggro blah and tricky(wich no one said tough)...iam aggro too and you too i guess but hes not a maniac but you expect him to make a maniacal raise with A x<9 because OP said hes aggro...that doesnt fit> please look at both hand were he raised the River > once he cappe dwith the Nutflush on a paired Baord and once he c/r when he rivered Aces up....hows that tricky? Or how lets that even assume that he woudl raise the River with a lone Ace here?And you have no reason to believe that villain thinks that OP would fold a better hand or call with a worse...thats the real reason > 8:1 or 14:1 doesnt matter much here in my view but whatever...


i dont want to discuss about that anymore becaus eit doesnt lead to conclusion > I know what youre talking about but we have just different opinions about how often were good here > thats all > i know what youre talking about > Limit holdem is not a Game of Big folds > dont fold in Big Pots etc...i might just call myself in the heat of teh battle as i did today but looking at it i still dont expect to be good 1 in 14 here...

[Lost Wages]

Muck that cheese preflop, double so against an opponent who's going to put you to the test postflop. Be honest with yourself; do you really think that you will show a profit by 3-betting QTs OOP or are you 3-betting because you know he's "stealing" and you don't want him to get away with it. The latter is a natural human reaction and happens to all of us. Pick a better spot IMHO.

As played, the turn is an easy 3 bet. You are waaaay ahead of his range.

Lost Wages

[bobhalford]

It's pretty tough to pay off a river raise here. We have represented a set or a straight on the turn. A two pair hand is probably in the bottom range of hands you could hold in villain's mind. So even with AQ, he's unlikely to raise the river cuz he knows he's going to get 3-bet a lot by TT/99/KJ etc.

But there are so many bets in the pot on the river that folding the best hand could be a huge mistake. But what worse hand could villain raise on the river? I can't even think of one. If he's dumb or crazy enough to raise this river with QJ, you should call. Some players I'm sure are apt to make this play because their pair and oesd didn't pan out, frustrating them to the point of spewing on the river. If he's one of these emotional types, I suppose it makes money to call. But even with that read it's hard to believe that villain could raise this river with a worse hand. I think that if I were playing the hand, I'd bet/fold and not feel too good about it.

[TheWunderkind]

yeah if he might be on tilt because he lost a bunch of hands before might make it a call

[yourface]

what do you put his range at after he raises the turn?

[henkeee]

In general I don't like the "call because the pot is big" line either, but with the impression I had of this guy I would not have considered folding.

So, if we don't b/f, do you prefer b/c or c/c on this specific river?